Probably get roasted but I need to rant

[InAMess2023]

On the back of my other threads. Ok it turns out I can't have children but I actually wasn't sure I wanted them before that and now I'm a million percent sure. My reasons are as follows and I just wanted to get them out there. Judge away I expect it. In no particular order (I'm also autistic by the way)

• I don't have a great relationship with my body so having a baby will ruin it further
• if the relationship doesn't last you've still got something tying you together
• maternity leave aka not willing to cut my earnings significantly after 6 weeks
• relationship with my own mum who is not maternal and wouldn't want usual Grandma duties
• love of exotic expensive holidays that would have to stop
• shopping habits that I don't want to give up
• lifestyle - I do what I want when I want
• lack of sleep
• after 25 years of mental health problems a genuine fear that I might try and top myself

Sure there's more but felt I needed to write it down after comments on other threads 'the best feeling in the world is to be a mother' I just wanted to get it out there. Seriously if you'd trust me with any maternal feelings especially after the last one I'd worry for you

@SongWriter when those reasons include 'I wanted to see how our DNA mixed' I think that's valid. Also I was judged just for asking the question. Many times. I posted on this board instead as suggested, how about stopping with the cross posting now?

Devoted mum of twins after 9 ivfs here. All valid and understandable reasons OP. No judgements here. I applaud you for deciding how you want to live your life and doing the things you love. Life's for living and enjoying. 👏🏻

when those reasons include 'I wanted to see how our DNA mixed' I think that's valid. Also I was judged just for asking the question. Many times. I posted on this board instead as suggested, how about stopping with the cross posting now?

If that is someone’s reason, then that is their reason. If you tell them it’s not good enough, that is judging and it’s unpleasant, just like it is when people judge your reasons for not having children. They didn’t do that on your thread.

There were some posters that found your thread insensitive, that’s because the topics of infertility and adoption are sensitive ones. I felt your initial posts were fine but as you started judging and almost laughing at posters for their reasons, that is where it felt goady.

Sheesh, this kicked off! I saw the other thread, too, but only read the first page.

I'm not unlike you, @InAMess2023 (though more than twice your age now). I expected to have children and wanted to, but was NEVER broody in the way some women are. My career was important so I took the pill until I was 30. Then switched to a diaphragm. I thought I was brilliant at contraception, as didn't get pregnant until I was in a long-term relationship ... when I miscarried again, and again, at least 5 times and possibly more. Then found out I have PCOS, which explained quite a few things.

By that time, several of my friends had been through IVF and I was adamant I didn't want it. The strain it put on their bodies, personalities and relationships was horrendous. I just didn't want kids that badly.

I was still loving my career and being able to do all the extra time hosting clients in the evenings, going to conferences and so forth. The relationship broke down. We'd been really good at travelling together but I didn't miss a beat, travelling by myself and going to work abroad for a few years.

I bought a lot of lovely things, ate wonderful food and so on, because my money was all mine and so was my time. I married another dickhead and we talked about adoption; luckily it didn't last long so we never subjected a child to yet another trauma. Now I'm both single and childfree. That's the way it's going to stay.

It's no big deal, imo. Unless you're filthy rich, there's a trade-off for reproduction. Kids cost a lot of money and time; without them you have more independence, more freedom of choice. I am selfish because I can be, though that's the wrong word: I am self-reliant. Selfish implies uncaring - it should be obvious that childfree people can choose who to care about, and how much, in ways that parents can't.

To add, I didn’t post on the other thread, I only read it.

Why do you keep posting the same things over & over? It’s very odd.

I honestly don’t think that anyone is that bothered you don’t want kids.

You don’t want kids, that’s fine, no one gives a shit about what life choices you make. You get shit because you come across as arrogant and confrontational. From a fellow AuDHDer IHTH.

@MorningSunshineSparkles Im not an AuDHDer. IHTH

Why would anyone on this board judge you, OP? It's a board with two primary audiences - one being childfree women with their own multitude of reasons for their decision. I'm not sure what you were aiming for with this thread.

I've not seen your other thread (can anyone link it?) but it does sound like you've wound people up judging their decision to have kids, and are now inviting them to judge your decision not to. It's not really what this board is for - we get enough people coming here and being unhelpful as it is.

@fitzwilliamdarcy the thread was taken down. I'm not trying to be unhelpful. I was told to take my discussion to this board so I did. and call me judgemental all you want for this but no, I don't see 'I wanted to see what a mix of our genetics would look like' as a valid reason to have a child. Nor do I appreciate repeatedly being told that I wouldn't understand... yes that's why I asked in the first place

I guess I'm wondering why you feel the need to be provided with a satisfactory reason to have a child.

I don't understand how anyone could look at the world now and think having a human that'll come of age in 2042 or so is a good idea, but so what? Nobody is required to answer to me, or explain it to me, because it's none of my business and frankly we've all got better things to be doing with our lives.

People have kids for all sorts of reasons, some more logical than others. I don't really understand the purpose in starting a thread and asking people to try and convince you that their reasons are good enough and then telling them they're not.

If it's genuine curiosity then there are millions and millions of bloggers out there who write about it. Better to read those and judge away in your head, I reckon.

If asked, I’d say I don’t think enjoying expensive holidays is any better a reason not to have kids than wanting to mix DNA is to have kids.

I understand you may have quite rigid thinking, but your opinions aren’t necessarily facts.

I think what’s frustrating people is that your desire not to be judged (perfectly reasonable) doesn’t seem to be a two way street?

@fitzwilliamdarcy ahhh ok I'll leave mumsnet to the mums then 🤦🏼‍♀️ it's a place to ask questions. I've asked questions. I have absolutely zero desire to listen to any mummy bloggers. But time to shut my account

@Apolloneuro you weren't asked. HTH

You literally started the thread asking this?😂

Childfree by choicer here. Fully fertile, DH has had vasectomy. (I have 2 DSC who I adore, 50% so I do get a lot of child time too).

All the reasons you listed were valid, haven’t seen the other thread so no idea what everyone is talking about.

BUT I really, really, REALLY get uncomfortable with either parents slamming the childfree or childfree slamming parents.

All the things you listed in your OP are my priority, so for me, worth not having kids for. But many, many women don’t see that list as important and they do want kids for ANY reason, which - if our list is valid - surely means theirs is too? One reason I don’t want kids is I like lots of disposable income - not exactly a valiant or morally admirable position. Hardly for me to judge if someone wants a baby to see what the genetics would result in.

Even as a someone who never wanted children, I look at my DH and wonder what our child might have looked like. And I love seeing him in his children, so I can totally imagine the desire to have the children of a person you love.

I also think parents aren’t lying about the love thing. I think genetics really plays a strong part in attachment - I absolutely love my stepkids, but I feel way more “protection” over my nieces and nephews. There is certainly a genetic/chemical/evolutionary element to that love.

We cannot possibly define the feelings that others experience.

I guess all I’m saying is why do we have to keep having this debate? Can’t we all just quietly live our choices??

She screams pointlessly into the void! 🤣

All good reasons, and being told you can't does force a bit of reflection I think - even if as you say, you were pretty sure you didn't want children anyway. I think we question ourselves on these kinds of things much more than anyone else actually does. People ask a question maybe 'Oh do you think you'll have kids' and then trot off never giving it another thought beyond that moment.

I can't imagine ever judging someone for not having kids. There are LOADS of reasons people I know don't have children, just like some have dogs, some don't, some of them drive, some don't, some are married, some aren't....tis life.

Not at all. I'm not a mum. I was one of the people who posted at length on the thread asking for this board, and I'm very protective of this space and the need to keep it for who it's intended for. This board is a great one and I hope you stick around on it.

@Apolloneuro Im sorry I must have missed the thread I started where I said are my reasons for not having kids commensurate with others reasons for having them? If you genuinely think that bringing a child into the world just out of curiosity to see what mixture of their parents it has is on a par with not wanting the expense of having kids then I despair

Totally valid and wise in my opinion. You sound self aware and seem to think long term as opposed to just having a cute baby.

I have two children. I love my kids, but I underestimated the impact it would have on my mental and physical health. They bring me a lot of joy but if I have a next life, I will be remaining child free.

I have two children OP and I have to say your post really resonated with me. You are 100 percent doing the right thing. All of those things you have listed will DEFINITELY change if you were to have children. My life changed massively, all those reasons you listed have happened. Completely tied down and I’ve lost myself. Body, finances, career, decent lifestyle have all taken a massive nose dive. You’ve made your decision, this has then been reinforced by the fact you can’t have them. Now just enjoy life and make it as fulfilling as possible. Many of your friends will make out they feel sorry for you, but deep down they’ll be jealous as hell.

What is a good reason to have kids, in your opinion, OP?

Because a) for starters, you've misread the intent behind wanting to mix DNA with the people you love; it's not about random curiosity, b) it really makes no rational sense to have a child in the modern world, so all reasons essentially boil down to "I wanted to", as most reasons not to do it boil down to "I didn't want to".

I'm all for you not having your reasons for not having DC judged. It has to go both ways though.

@DreadPirateRobots Because a) for starters, you've misread the intent behind wanting to mix DNA with the people you love; it's not about random curiosity

What is it about then? Genuine question, as I don't feel this way either

I definitely agree.