Hidden/unspoken societal beliefs

[EducatingArti]

Inspired by the "what is the worst thing anyone has said to you" thread and the "bunfight" on Site stuff that got deleted, where I was very patiently trying to explain how having children was a societal norm/expectation and how childfree/less people had to live in this culture when it wasn't the norm for them.

What do you think are the hidden/unspoken societal beliefs about being a parent/being childfree/less that we have to live with?

So I think these:

Being childfree/childless is not "normal".
If you are childfree/childless you must be living a second best life.
Everywhere you go, most things are presented in "family with child" shaped spaces and this can feel alien/ uncomfortable.

What do you think?

I always find the link quite peculiar as the ones abusing said children are almost always their parents.

(I speak from experience, sadly. Child abuse literally triggers me but I’ve been told by parents that that doesn’t compare to what they feel when they read about child abuse.)

A while back there was a Mail interview with a midwife - a MIDWIFE - who said that a lot of parents doubt her ability to do her job properly because she doesn't have children. I mean, it's not like she trained to do that job, is it?

I'd have been handing them the scrubs and the bleeper and saying 'There you go. You deliver the next one, oh parent. I'll stand there and take tips from the expert' and see if that shut them up.

She’s childless, I believe, but yes. Andrea Leadsom questioned her ability to lead the country because she’s not a mother.

I don't like May but I was furious on her behalf at that Leadsom comment.

Married and CF by choice - what’s the point of Christmas, you can’t possibly enjoy it, doesn’t it make you sad to be missing out?

Also, Christmas / birthdays once all our siblings had kids… ooh let’s not do gifts for adults anymore, just gifts for the kids… me oh ok then, so we’ll be buying pressies for all your kids, but as we don’t have children we’ll never get anything in return?
Im happy with no expected gift giving ever, and I’d still buy gifts for all my nephews, nieces, great nephews, great nieces, etc but to be told that there’s no reciprocatable deal is just pants!

Shared holiday accommodation - oh you’ll love getting up with the kids, such a novel and joyful experience for you both! And I’m sure you’d not begrudge us the lie in, we obviously work so much harder than you.

Meals out on holiday, 8 people eating 2 x family of 3 (teenage children), and us as a couple, let’s spilt the bill 3 ways 🙄

Ooo I sound mean 😂

This. And also, in my case because there's a family history of birth defects - which isn't the reason I don't want kids, but people tend to assume it is - that I'm covering up some sort of secret heartbreak over being supposedly 'unable' to have children by 'pretending' I don't want them anyway. (Well, that's my MIL's assumption anyway, despite having been put straight.) It's so frustrating.

I'm really sorry for your experience and also angry on your behalf at what parents have said to you.

I believe Mary berry suggested that she had an advantage over the childless delia smith

https://www.countryliving.com/uk/create/food-and-drink/news/a1518/mary-berry-having-children-advantage-over-delia-smith/

@fitzwilliamdarcy I'm so sorry . That's awful.

My abusive father would watch news or things in tv and say how awful it was that people hurt children and how sorry her felt for the victims. But he would tell me to get over myself because it wasn't that bad. Sure maybe it wasn't. But it did affect me badly and I have a lot of issues trusting people or feeling safe around them.

That you never fully grow up until you have a child

Me neither, but I couldn't use it as an excuse to ignore either. It was around the same time my ex's brother was being horrible to his partner about their fertility troubles, that I spoke up about because it made me a bit angry

Sorry not childfree, but the having more money is definitely a hidden belief. In reality the poorest people I know are single without children. As a single unemployed person you get £85 a week plus some housing benefit. If you are on minimum wage any benefits if you get them will be minimal. But you still have a lot of costs such as heating that a family has.
Not everyone childfree has sex and the city kind of jobs.

Absolutely.
I do wonder if some people live in circles which are just exactly like them so only guess lives of others based on tv movies. Anyone with eyes open can see you are right. There are some posters on MN who are single and they did talk about it few times. I think on AIBU.

I know this thread is primarily aimed at those without children so apologies if I overstep, but the tropes around those of us who have adult DC who have chosen not to have children are also shit. The "There's no love like a Granny's love" type bollox that gets spouted drives me insane. See also " such a shame you're missing out on being a granny", " She'll probably change her mind" (she won't), "How sad" etc.
FWIW I couldn't give a fat rat's crack about having GC because it's none of my business what DD does with her womb.

Am appalled at Mary Berry's comment.

How awful from Mary Berry, that was so thoughtless and even cruel of her, there is no way you say something like that for publication without knowing how unkind it sounds. I always much preferred Delia Smith myself.

😂

I remember years ago reading a problem page type article where an older woman wrote in to complain that her daughter wasn't planning on having children so she wouldn't be a grandma. Apparently it wasn't fair as all her friends were grandparents and she felt really left out.

She wanted advice on how to make her daughter see sense and make her a grandmother.

She was given short shrift from the agony aunt!

oh I so remember this - my nephew was around the same age as the little boy as well and I remember feeling very upset by the photos splashed across the newspapers of his body washed up on the beach - I couldn't help but imagine how it would feel if it were my nephew.

And honestly, the love I feel for my niece and nephew now, and when they were born, hit me a lot harder than I was expecting.

I may not be their mother, but these two little mini humans are my blood, and I would do ANYTHING to protect them.

Is it the same love as a mother? No, but it's still a very deep and emotional connection, and one that I would love society to recognise more frequently.

Mary Berry is saying that the advantage she gets from having children is that they tell you the truth. Well a childlfree person can get the truth just as easily from family and friends. Even Mary says her husband is also truthful to her so admits children aren't the only source. Funny spun article.

Societies hidden/unspoken beliefs are of no consequence at all if you don't give a flying feck what society believes and do what you want anyway. Life's much easier that way.

Miss Marple gets pretty close to that, doesn’t she?

What @Dontcallmescarface said but from the CF daughter's perspective. Comments about how sad it is that my parents (just Pa now) don't have any grandchildren. Imagine how shocked people are when they find out that neither my sister or me have children!

My bestie used to tell me how good I was with her two, it was such a shame I didn't have any as I would be a wonderful mother. I was only good with them as I knew it was only for a few hours.

Just as some women are certain they want children, I was certain I didn't. Why is that so hard for people to understand?

My mum got those kinds of comments from a neighbour of hers who complained all the time she'd had to give up a beloved, but time consuming, hobby to provide childcare, she was exhausted and skint etc. That's some impressive cognitive dissonance!

Miss Marple gets pretty close to that, doesn’t she?

I was going to say Miss Marple! Also, not a detective but Olivia Pope in Scandal is a great childfree character. Carrie in SATC.

Barbara (and Margo!) in The Good Life 😂