Hidden/unspoken societal beliefs

[EducatingArti]

Inspired by the "what is the worst thing anyone has said to you" thread and the "bunfight" on Site stuff that got deleted, where I was very patiently trying to explain how having children was a societal norm/expectation and how childfree/less people had to live in this culture when it wasn't the norm for them.

What do you think are the hidden/unspoken societal beliefs about being a parent/being childfree/less that we have to live with?

So I think these:

Being childfree/childless is not "normal".
If you are childfree/childless you must be living a second best life.
Everywhere you go, most things are presented in "family with child" shaped spaces and this can feel alien/ uncomfortable.

What do you think?

Wow! OP, I have children (2, although nearly stopped at 1) and I disagree.

I had an overwhelming urge to have a child but maybe that was FOMO. If I was a person who didn't want children then life would be much easier! With children I sacrifice a lot of myself. Those with children have way more money and freedom and still have the opportunity to have amazing relationships with partners, friends and family.

Having children changed me and I am less selfish, but that doesn't mean child free people are selfish!

That you’re not a “real” woman because you haven’t fulfilled your biological function.

OP, sorry- think I misunderstand- those aren't your beliefs but ones that people have said

The OP was specifically asking Childfree MNs.

That we can’t be as happy as those with children.

That we are ‘lacking’ somehow.

That there is something wrong with us.

That we’re lying to ourselves and others about our lack of desire for children.

Okay, so the first poster has given us a great example: that people without children have more money.

Yes, we aren’t spending on children.

Many of us have spent years having expensive fertility treatment which has failed, but left us with big holes or debts where our savings should be.

It’s true that DH and I probably have more disposable income than someone in the same role, who has children now. But we spend a lot more on future planning and future proofing, because we know we won’t have family to help us as we get old.

Those of us without partners pay the single premium for lots of things, such as hotels etc.

If I had to manage a household on just my own salary, I would have a much lower standard of living than the couples I know who have children.

So society is wrong to think this it’s always the case that people without children have more money.

I am early retired for health reasons on a pretty low income and the two families I know have much more disposable income than me, but I agree. An unspoken societal assumption can be that childless/free people must have more disposable income

Adverts get me. The only representations of older women without children are for advertising incontinence products!

Those with children have way more money and freedom

Fuck me, I'm fed up of this. What's 'way more money,' for a start?

Or thinning hair. Or end of life plans when Authoritative Man tells ditsy woman to take a plan out quick so she can pay for her funeral.

I find it interesting that there is simultaneously the impression that childfree women must be having busy fulfilling lives (with their high flying careers and their free time and better cash flow) whilst also missing out, having shallow, cold, selfish lives.

Like are we having the time of our lives or not?

Whilst the reality is that the vast majority of us are just having mundane normal lives, with normal jobs and normal amounts of money. We aren't having masses of extra holidays because if we work full time we get the same amount of holiday days as everyone else and we still have mortgages or rent and bills etc etc

That I need sympathy for not having children. When people find out they often say 'I'm sorry'.

And I hate the 'hardworking families' phrase trotted out by politicians.

I think @rockpoolingtogether is genuinely trying to contribute but she is maybe inadvertently demonstrating the very thing I mean about societal norms and beliefs ie in this case that those without children have way more money and freedom.
No, not always. Our finances and levels of freedom vary as much as anyone else's.

I would really love it if parents could really try and see outside the box to see how much society assumes things from a parent- centric point of view.

I've moaned about this before under a different user name but I find the tropes rolled out by TV, films, books etc to be really annoying

You have either:

Cold, calculating career woman who never has kids and is a bitch (devil wears prada)

Cold calculating career woman who has life events happen and leaves her career to either have children or be a step mum (every frigging hallmark film)

Infertile woman who goes through sad times but then has a miracle baby (loads of things)

Infertile woman who is so desperate she steals a baby (pretty much every medical drama)

There's never woman without kids who has a normal life

Cold, calculating career woman who never has kids and is a bitch (devil wears prada)

Miranda Priestly had twin daughters...

You're so right!

I'm sitting here wracking my brain trying to think of a normal, fulfilled, childfree woman, who's not a complete and utter bitch, on TV or in a film...

The Devil wears Prada character had kids.

So sometimes mothers are presented as cold hardhearted bitches too, but childless women are always presented in one of the tropes @Moreempatheticmyarse mentions?

J B Fletcher was a beautiful exception to these "evil/ bitch/ saddo who drinks wine at home and cries"
Can't think of many others tbh...

I'm sitting here wracking my brain trying to think of a normal, fulfilled, childfree woman, who's not a complete and utter bitch, on TV or in a film...

Vera? (haven't watched much of it so don't know the character's back story).

If I had to manage a household on just my own salary, I would have a much lower standard of living than the couples I know who have children.

This. The couples with kids I know are the ones going on holiday to Disneyland every year and having their kitchens redone. I haven’t had a holiday since 2018 and my savings are pitiful. The constant refrain that the only expensive thing in life is having children is absolutely infuriating to me.

I think what really gets to me most is that we can’t even identify the unspoken messages without being told, by people without our experience, that they don’t exist.

Woman who thinks she doesn’t want children but accidentally gets pregnant, realises she did want them all along and is transformed by motherhood.

I'm sitting here wracking my brain trying to think of a normal, fulfilled, childfree woman, who's not a complete and utter bitch, on TV or in a film...

Cristina Yang from Grey’s. She’s career-focussed but doesn’t hate kids and isn’t cold. She just doesn’t want to have any. She maintains that stance all the way through the show and never compromises, despite pressure from her partners. There’s even an episode where it depicts how right she is by showing what would have happened to her spirit had she given in. I’m so glad she exists as a character.

Good to see you back @fitzwilliamdarcy

I haven’t had a holiday since 2018 and my savings are pitiful. The constant refrain that the only expensive thing in life is having children is absolutely infuriating to me

I've just booked my first trip abroad for 13 years (and cashed in a tiny pension to do it - special birthday next year).

Thanks @MrsDanversGlidesAgain. I was so aggravated - by the fact that the site stuff thread asking that the board be hidden because it gets hijacked by parents had to be deleted because it was hijacked by parents - that it ironically convinced me to return to the fold.

Incidentally - @EducatingArti, you handled yourself beautifully on that thread. You’re such an eloquent speaker.