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MNers without children

This board is primarily for MNers without children - others are welcome to post but please be respectful

Original poster

Hidden/unspoken societal beliefs

153 replies

EducatingArti · 30/10/2023 11:26

Inspired by the "what is the worst thing anyone has said to you" thread and the "bunfight" on Site stuff that got deleted, where I was very patiently trying to explain how having children was a societal norm/expectation and how childfree/less people had to live in this culture when it wasn't the norm for them.

What do you think are the hidden/unspoken societal beliefs about being a parent/being childfree/less that we have to live with?

So I think these:

Being childfree/childless is not "normal".
If you are childfree/childless you must be living a second best life.
Everywhere you go, most things are presented in "family with child" shaped spaces and this can feel alien/ uncomfortable.

What do you think?

OP posts:
SoRainbowRhythms · 30/10/2023 12:21

That I don't know what real love is. It's the only one that I struggle to shrug off.

Also the money thing. I'm always skint!

fitzwilliamdarcy · 30/10/2023 12:22

Oh, and enjoy your trip @MrsDanversGlidesAgain!

MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 30/10/2023 12:24

fitzwilliamdarcy · 30/10/2023 12:22

Oh, and enjoy your trip @MrsDanversGlidesAgain!

Thanks so much, paid the deposit this morning. Australia next September to see the fam and do some sightseeing to celebrate getting older 😉Treated myself to a decent plane seat, as well.

PTSDBarbiegirl · 30/10/2023 12:27

One big massive hidden belief that 99.9% of society believe but fear to voice is that males cannot become females and vice versa by the power of false breasts, wigs or hormones.

Another is that women are of so little value that it's okay to put them at risk by parading 'trans' males in safe spaces.

Another is that if you don't aspire to mortgages, foreign holidays and university for your DC then something is wrong.

Normalsizedsalad · 30/10/2023 12:28

PTSDBarbiegirl · 30/10/2023 12:27

One big massive hidden belief that 99.9% of society believe but fear to voice is that males cannot become females and vice versa by the power of false breasts, wigs or hormones.

Another is that women are of so little value that it's okay to put them at risk by parading 'trans' males in safe spaces.

Another is that if you don't aspire to mortgages, foreign holidays and university for your DC then something is wrong.

Have you read the op???

Original poster
EducatingArti · 30/10/2023 12:29

fitzwilliamdarcy · 30/10/2023 12:21

Thanks @MrsDanversGlidesAgain. I was so aggravated - by the fact that the site stuff thread asking that the board be hidden because it gets hijacked by parents had to be deleted because it was hijacked by parents - that it ironically convinced me to return to the fold.

Incidentally - @EducatingArti, you handled yourself beautifully on that thread. You’re such an eloquent speaker.

Why thank you Mr Darcy! <bows>

OP posts:
MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 30/10/2023 12:30

Take your point, @PTSDBarbiegirl but this is societal beliefs about childfree women on the childfree board, not women en masse.

Normalsizedsalad · 30/10/2023 12:30

Sounds smashing @MrsDanversGlidesAgain !!!

EmpressaurusOfCats · 30/10/2023 12:31

The assumption that parents’ lives automatically have purpose & meaning, while ours don’t.

Also, I enjoy Ann Cleeves’s books but there’s an annoying theme that keeps coming up of characters not having kids because they’re ‘too selfish’. Sometimes they say it themselves & sometimes others say it about them.

MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 30/10/2023 12:31

Normalsizedsalad · 30/10/2023 12:30

Sounds smashing @MrsDanversGlidesAgain !!!

Looking forward to it, love Aus.

EmpressaurusOfCats · 30/10/2023 12:32

Have a fantastic time!

MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 30/10/2023 12:34

The assumption that parents’ lives automatically have purpose & meaning, while ours don’t

Which would be news to untold numbers of childfree women who devoted themselves to the education of children, the advancement of science and the running of the country.

muddyford · 30/10/2023 12:37

NunsKnickers · 30/10/2023 11:58

That I need sympathy for not having children. When people find out they often say 'I'm sorry'.

And I hate the 'hardworking families' phrase trotted out by politicians.

'Hardworking families ' makes me gnash my teeth. Unless the kids are being sent up chimneys, it's not true. The reverse is 'child poverty ' - again, unless the children are expected to work, it's families that are poor.

I don't have children and neither does my sister, and we lead 'normal' lives.

Original poster
EducatingArti · 30/10/2023 12:38

And also nursing and medicine.

OP posts:
Moreempatheticmyarse · 30/10/2023 12:46

Poontangle · 30/10/2023 12:03

Cold, calculating career woman who never has kids and is a bitch (devil wears prada)

Miranda Priestly had twin daughters...

Fair enough it's ages since I read it, its still the same kind of people that I mean though

NunsKnickers · 30/10/2023 12:49

Vera and Christina Yang, great examples, thank you 🙂

Moreempatheticmyarse · 30/10/2023 12:53

fitzwilliamdarcy · 30/10/2023 12:16

I'm sitting here wracking my brain trying to think of a normal, fulfilled, childfree woman, who's not a complete and utter bitch, on TV or in a film...

Cristina Yang from Grey’s. She’s career-focussed but doesn’t hate kids and isn’t cold. She just doesn’t want to have any. She maintains that stance all the way through the show and never compromises, despite pressure from her partners. There’s even an episode where it depicts how right she is by showing what would have happened to her spirit had she given in. I’m so glad she exists as a character.

Yes Christina Yang is a good one - although she is still a very high flying career centric woman. She is very inspirational but it's still not quite a "perfectly normal woman who just doesn't have children"

What I do find interesting is that some of the other characters play out the societal expectations around her. There is definitely a theme from Owen that she's cold and selfish for not being willing to have children etc.

She is definitely one of, if not my favorite, representation of a childfree woman though

Original poster
EducatingArti · 30/10/2023 12:55

Vera is a very sympathetic childfree character but she does verge a little on the "mad cat lady trope" - no?

I feel that it is implied that her isolated single childfree life is because of the demons that she wrestles with. If she hadn't got those she would be a happy married granny. But maybe I am reading too much into it from my own reactionary point of view?

OP posts:
NunsKnickers · 30/10/2023 13:00

Vera is definitely portrayed as grumpy and would be difficult to live with. However she's an intelligent, successful woman who does as dhe pleases. And she seems satisfied with her life as it is, I don't get any feelings of regret for not having children from her at all.

MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 30/10/2023 13:01

Don't know, I haven't watched enough of it to be that familiar with the character. I suppose a CF woman who was happy with her life and her decision and who had no demons (apparently obligatory for every TV cop) wouldn't make for any drama, would it?

TheFretfulPorpentine · 30/10/2023 13:01

Moreempatheticmyarse · 30/10/2023 12:01

I've moaned about this before under a different user name but I find the tropes rolled out by TV, films, books etc to be really annoying

You have either:

Cold, calculating career woman who never has kids and is a bitch (devil wears prada)

Cold calculating career woman who has life events happen and leaves her career to either have children or be a step mum (every frigging hallmark film)

Infertile woman who goes through sad times but then has a miracle baby (loads of things)

Infertile woman who is so desperate she steals a baby (pretty much every medical drama)

There's never woman without kids who has a normal life

Or even an infertile woman who comes to terms with it and goes on to have a happy productive life pursuing some of the many options available in a free and relatively prosperous society to a woman who doesn't have children.

NunsKnickers · 30/10/2023 13:02

MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 30/10/2023 13:01

Don't know, I haven't watched enough of it to be that familiar with the character. I suppose a CF woman who was happy with her life and her decision and who had no demons (apparently obligatory for every TV cop) wouldn't make for any drama, would it?

Oh yes, all TV detectives have demons 😄

Otterock · 30/10/2023 13:04

As usual women can’t win. Child free/less? Must be having a great time without responsibilities, more money and free time but that free time is also hollow and cold because it’s not filled with children?

The only one that really bugs me is that I don’t know ‘real love.’ No, I don’t know the love a parent has for their child. There’s lots of different types of ‘real love’, love for your children is just one of them, but it’s not the only one.

fitzwilliamdarcy · 30/10/2023 13:04

NunsKnickers · 30/10/2023 13:02

Oh yes, all TV detectives have demons 😄

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Book detectives too! Maybe I am that cold childless woman because I end up muttering “I don’t care about your marital issues/substance abuse/experience in the army, I just want to know more about this crime you’re supposed to be solving!”

KimberleyClark · 30/10/2023 13:06

TheFretfulPorpentine · 30/10/2023 13:01

Or even an infertile woman who comes to terms with it and goes on to have a happy productive life pursuing some of the many options available in a free and relatively prosperous society to a woman who doesn't have children.

Show quote history

Absolutely.