Why do they take it personally?

[BadCider]

I consider myself happily childfree.

I've never actively wanted a baby - I assumed I'd get the 'urge' but never did. I love my freedom, never felt anything missing.

Around 10 years ago I needed surgery and during this, another issue was discovered and more tests were carried out; long story short, if I wanted children then I would need IVF and even then the chance would be tiny. I cannot conceive naturally.

I remember thinking phew, that's lucky I don't see myself as a mother because that would be devastating! And carried on with my life.

I'm active and in a lot of groups/clubs and meet lots of new people regularly, and with work I travel a lot and smalltalk is needed. So inevitably I'm asked "do you have kids" quite a lot. By women.

When I answer "no" then 80% of them follow up with "oh did you not want them?"

I've found a huge difference in reaction when I give one of two answers- either I say "I can't have children" and I'm met with sympathy and 'oh I'm so sorry' the conversation changes and the interaction continues warmly.

But if I say "I didn't want children." Then I'm met with 'oh' and it's a noticeably less warm interaction.

My feeling is that it's taken as a personal affront, they're offended that I made a different choice, they think I hate kids (I don't).

But me not having kids doesn't mean I judge them for having them - that would be so ridiculous, everyone is different, we all enjoy different things, have different lives etc.

I just wanted to vent! This happened last night at a group, and I was getting on well with a woman until I said I didn't have kids, didn't want them, (she asked) and she actually just blanked me after that!

Incidentally, my husband is never asked. 🙄

So many childfree women seem to get the same treatment! I've never been judged or questioned as to why I didn't want children; maybe after spending time with me they decided it was probably for the best 😂

😂

It is seen as "the norm" by a lot of people, and they can't understand why people go against the grain. Just my opinion!

Some of it is jealousy. A lot of women didn't realise the child free option was an option (as silly as that sounds) due to their family expectations and traditions. Not unless they wanted to rock the boat.

It’s so odd, and so sexist that your husband isn’t asked. Maybe you should retort with ‘why DO you have children’ to those who ask. Bet not many can answer that easily

I suspect the vast majority couldn’t give a toss and you’re seeing shadows where there are none

'Some of it is jealousy. A lot of women didn't realise the child free option was an option (as silly as that sounds) due to their family expectations and traditions.'

I think you're right

'I suspect the vast majority couldn’t give a toss and you’re seeing shadows where there are none'

I also think you're right that the vast majority don't give a fig one way or the other, but I do believe OP's examples

I have children. I can imagine that someone asking that question does so assuming you will say yes and the conversation will naturally flow around your shared experience. It's obviously a huge assumption to make and I'm guessing that when you said no, she was a bit embarrassed at having asked the question and didn't know how to respond.

I honestly can't imagine that anyone would take it as a personal slight that someone else hadn't had kids!

@Eyesopenwideawake 🤣

I have two friends who don't want them and that's great for them. It's your life and you need to do what makes you happy. As they're my friends we had in depths conversations about why I do have children and they choose not to but strangers or acquaintances shouldn't ask as at the end of the day, you could have struggled with infertility for years.

I appreciate that the social pressure means people expect everyone to have children but society has moved on so much, so it is strange that people still go on about it wanting to tell you that you'll never know unconditional love!

I didn't have children as I never wanted them. I've never felt judged for it or found myself received differently after telling people it was a conscious decision. But then I also made a decision a long time ago to not care what people think about me and that is very freeing and saves a lot of angst and worries.

Some of this is just misogyny, I get questioned on why I only have 1 (choice and medically was told I'd not even have 1), judged on whether that's fair to DS, my friend has 4 and also gets interrogated and judged on that. Neither husband does.
When you're female anything vaguely to do with reproduction will be questioned and judged.

I agree with @MrsPepperp0t - but then I also have children. If I knew you couldn't, then it's natural to offer condolences, but if you said no, I wouldn't have that shared experience, so there wouldn't really be anywhere for the conversation to go. If it was another childless person, you'd have more to say - hence why this board is so popular I guess!

I personally wouldn't ask you in the first place - too much a minefield!

I think it's that there are a number of childfree by choice people who can be quite vitriolic in giving their reasons why and get quite nasty - so unfortunately people might (unfairly) assume you may be one of that crew and back off.

I'm both childfree and childless and tend to use one or the other depending on how prepared I am to handle weirdness from strangers. Because you're right - one engenders sympathy and doesn't throw off the conversation, whereas the other just stilts it. I've had that experience many, many times (I know on MN we're all imagining it). The worst was being completely cut out of a conversation at a gala dinner full of professionals I was really excited to network with.

I think people just don't like to feel like you might judge them because you've chosen something different. Which is sort of ironic because it's exactly what it comes across as they're doing, but hey ho.

You do know you're posting in the childfree forum?

"That crew" is really dismissive.

'I personally wouldn't ask you in the first place - too much a minefield!'

Well that's very smart. It can be really uncomfortable or even painful to be asked, especially when you can't be sure of a sensitive response. There's no need anyway - if people do have children, they tend to come up in conversation before long

'I'm both childfree and childless'

Same! I don't relate fully to either term but definitely feel aspects of both

If someone asks if I don't have children (rarely tbh) I just say 'no', and if they suggest I didn't want them or whatever, I say with a smile 'its a long story'. Which is true, and also tends to bring that avenue of conversation to an end, while letting them know it is a complex and sensitive area for me

Asking directly if someone has children is a very personal question and should be a no no.

I honestly think it’s this. Lots of people with children will only socialise with people with children much like people in couples who stop hanging out with single friends. Conversations have to revolve around children.

Not everyone is like this but lots are.

Only, surely, if you literally had nothing going on in your life other than having had children, though? I mean, I adore my son, but he’s not my whole life, or even most of it, and the rest of me is pretty much exactly the same as it was for the 40 years I was alive before I had him — I still have a job I love, go climbing, read obsessively, am engaged in various projects, see friends, sing in a choir etc.

OP, I think they take it personally for a couple of related reasons.

Firstly, they are suspicious of any life choice that doesn’t reinforce theirs, particularly one that looks ‘easier’, and to a certain kind of frothing, conformist person, someone else choosing not to have children is akin to how they would feel about someone deciding not to work and relying on benefits. They want you to be forced to do something every one ‘has to do’, and hate being reminded that having children and doing the work of rearing them, is a morally-neutral choice, not compulsory.

It’s easier for that kind of person to think ‘Poor tragic @BadCider — she would give decades off her life to be me, knee-deep in nappies!’ and to feel superior and envied, than it is to acknowledge that you chose not to have children because you didn’t want to, and are hence not sitting there envying her at all.

I find some of the most child friendly people I know don't have children. I'm not sure what that says really but it is just my experience. 3 of my 4 (adult) children have Godparents who don't have children (some by choice who would say childfree and some who very much wanted children and would say they were childless so I am saying don't have children as it sums up both groups.) One is almost like a professional Godmother, I've lost count of how many she has but she is very much a Mary Poppins character and gets on really well with children.

They are wonderful interested supportive people who mean so much to my children.

Of course that doesn't have to apply to everyone, I suppose there are people without children who don't like children but I haven't met any of them to my knowledge although I did have a colleague who I would say was uncomfortable around young children but I assumed that was down to lack of experience. We never discussed it so who knows.

I'd never ask anyone about children, bit of a minefield

It is so awful that people say these things. I would never ask someone or if by chance I did it would be deep in conversation and by accident - like 'oh sorry did you say you had kids? no? oh sorry, my mistake' and move swiftly on.

I actually had agonising scenarios with a former childless boss who i would never, ever, ever have been so rude as to interrogate on her childfree/childless status - even though she was so wonderful after my return from being off with very small kids. I could never work out whether she was horrified by my existence in that very snot-and-banana-on-my-work-coat era, or envious! I still don't know! It's none of my business and no relevance to her general amazingness!

It's so bloody irrelevant to who we are as PEOPLE who are interesting and faceted and complex. If it is any consolation, there's definitely a huge contingent of society who relegate you to 'just a boring old mum who by virtue of being a boring old mum is probably quite stupid and out of date' et cetera.

A pox on all shallow judgemental people with rude intrusive questions!

I think perhaps you're interpreting it the wrong way round. If you say "I can't have children", with the implicit suggestion that you would have wanted to, then people feel sympathy and pain on your behalf. So they are warm and sympathetic.

If you say you don't have children because you didn't want them, then it's pretty much the end of that part of the conversation, and no need for any sympathy to be felt or expressed, as it sounds like you have the set up in life that you wanted.

I have several friends who are childless not by choice and I know it's a huge source of pain and grief for them.

I have other friends who are happily childfree by choice and my feelings towards them re children/ families are completely different. Actually it's much easier to talk to them about that kind of thing because it's not a highly sensitive, painful subject.

It could be awkwardness. I’ve asked the question before, then felt really embarrassed/stupid/sexist for asking it and then drifted off to speak to someone else because of this.