Why do they take it personally?

[BadCider]

I consider myself happily childfree.

I've never actively wanted a baby - I assumed I'd get the 'urge' but never did. I love my freedom, never felt anything missing.

Around 10 years ago I needed surgery and during this, another issue was discovered and more tests were carried out; long story short, if I wanted children then I would need IVF and even then the chance would be tiny. I cannot conceive naturally.

I remember thinking phew, that's lucky I don't see myself as a mother because that would be devastating! And carried on with my life.

I'm active and in a lot of groups/clubs and meet lots of new people regularly, and with work I travel a lot and smalltalk is needed. So inevitably I'm asked "do you have kids" quite a lot. By women.

When I answer "no" then 80% of them follow up with "oh did you not want them?"

I've found a huge difference in reaction when I give one of two answers- either I say "I can't have children" and I'm met with sympathy and 'oh I'm so sorry' the conversation changes and the interaction continues warmly.

But if I say "I didn't want children." Then I'm met with 'oh' and it's a noticeably less warm interaction.

My feeling is that it's taken as a personal affront, they're offended that I made a different choice, they think I hate kids (I don't).

But me not having kids doesn't mean I judge them for having them - that would be so ridiculous, everyone is different, we all enjoy different things, have different lives etc.

I just wanted to vent! This happened last night at a group, and I was getting on well with a woman until I said I didn't have kids, didn't want them, (she asked) and she actually just blanked me after that!

Incidentally, my husband is never asked. 🙄

i think we are all giving that poster way too much air time

the fact that we all unanimously disagree and think she’s utterly rude / narrow minded / and judgemental - indicates what a complete outlier her view thankfully is

It’s like asking someone

“do you own your own home? And if the response is “no” then following up with “why not?”

Are you married? And if not, “why not?”

I could go on. Essentially though it is an entirely inappropriate question for a stranger / acquaintance to ask another

I think the biggest tell is how frequently we're dismissed when we talk about our real, lived experiences with judgement around our choices.

It's happened multiple times across the threads on this board. Someone will post about something they've experienced as someone who has chosen to not have children (or is childless but now child-free) and other posters, namely the parents, will jump in with their rebuttals and dismissals. "Oh, that never happens!" "Oh, I've never heard that!" and when they can't argue against it any longer, the good old, "Oh, you're just hanging around the wrong people. No one decent would ever say such things so why pay attention to dickheads?" Or my personal favourite, "Oh, you just all want to be special little victims!"

It's like we're being accused of lying. For what? For why? Of course, if you're a parent or you're someone who wants children in the future, you haven't heard the things that are said to people who have opted to not have children. Why would you?

It's also great that you wouldn't dream of saying those things-but that doesn't mean it's beyond other people to say them.

We're constantly being told that we're looking for shadows where there are none-when we already know there are because we've seen them and been smacked in the face by them.

It's just frustrating to see so many people relaying their experiences only to be told that they're wrong by people who a) weren't even there and b) have no frame of reference for such comments/experiences as it's not something they would ever encounter.

It's like we can't win. The denials that we experience any issues because of a choice we've made come thick and fast and when we provide examples of said issues-they're dismissed.

" Or my personal favourite, "Oh, you just all want to be special little victims!"

good heavens did someone say that on this thread?

Totally get you, as a late Mum after over 10 years ttc I got this a lot. Learnt from it, if a new person in my life says they don't have kids I don't ask, no need to know, I'd rather find out more about their lives and them. Hate the questions that comes with women who dhk, no need for it at all, but for many that's the only thing they think they may have in common as a subject to talk about I've found, not always of course, but certainly a lot! X

'It's like we can't win. The denials that we experience any issues because of a choice we've made come thick and fast and when we provide examples of said issues-they're dismissed'

Yep, well said. Some parents are determined to make sure we are in the wrong, no matter what

Yes, I think that is exactly what @PosterBoy meant. I was just offering up myself as an example of someone who was longterm childfree and then had a child after 20 odd years of being a happily childfree adult, while retaining the same values/politics/beliefs I had when I didn’t plan to have a child.

I don’t think ‘choosing not to have a child’ is a ‘value’, any more than ‘choosing to have a child’ is.

It’s deeply weird that @PosterBoy sees it in moral terms.

It’s deeply “concerning” that no doubt passing this on to her children

I’m 61 and have often been asked if I have children.
when I say no, people are always very polite. I’ve never ever had a negative comment, and I’m very thin skinned!
sometimes I feel the child free can be a bit sensitive; I really don’t think people care or judge these days.

Sometimes I think they feel a bit sorry for me not having kids, sometimes they might be envious. But nobody has ever been judgemental or unkind.

This is true.
As a thin-skinned childless 61 year old, nobody has said anything remotely negative or tactless about my decision.
you're right, people are too busy with themselves to make any judgements about whether other people have kids.
They probably suspect infertility and leave well alone.

Questions that I consider it extremely rude to ask:

• Are you married? (Or dating, or any variations on the partnered theme)
• Do you have children?
• Do you have siblings? (Or how many sibs do you have?)
• Do you have pets?
• Where are you from?
• Whereabouts do you live?

The first four all risk falling foul of a bereavement and the other two endanger women fleeing DV.

Plus no man ever asks a woman the first question with innocent intent.

I find it astonishingly rude that anyone would ask why you didn't have kids. fine to ask whether you have kids, that's pretty standard.

You’re doing exactly what is being complained of. Yes, this really happened and no it wasn’t on this thread.

I think they’re referring to the AIBU thread about why CF women think parents are obsessed with them. A few posters posted there about how we invite our own victimhood as we want to be considered special.

And you are doing what has also been pointed out

Seeing shadows and presuming the worse

i asked a question as I wondered whether if missed such a horrible poster

To be fair you’ve spent half the thread trying to convince everyone that if this sort of thing happens it’s an anomaly.

Does it matter if you’ve missed it on the thread? The poster was talking about something they’d read on MN. Must you verify everything yourself in order to believe it?

Gosh you like your sweeping generalisations don’t you?! 😂

Thanks for clarifying and sorry that you have encountered those attitudes. Lots if things make a good/bad/indifferent doctor and none of them are anything to do with having had children (or not)!

It is interesting that some posters are keen to dismiss real life experiences; not an unusual standpoint on MN though!

On reflection I think there's likely a range of reasons I encounter the reactions I do.

Some may indeed be quite envious/wistful and just not want to chat with someone childfree, some may be judgemental and think I don't share important values (?) taking it personally that I'm childfree, and some might just be too tired from parenting to make any other conversation...

I'm grateful for the normal posters that say they don't give a crap if someone has kids or not and are happy to just chat and make smalltalk!

To the previous Q yes I ask men too if they have kids to make small talk… dads like their kids too! If no, I try another topic. You can’t really avoid offending everyone bc every topic is sensitive to somebody, and I struggle enough with ASD so I figure I spend so much time learning neurotypical rules they can make some allowances for me too!

This is when I found the more out-of-left-field an answer I could find, the better. It wasn't usually a conversation I wanted to prolong, just a nosey random of the "but don't you want baybeeeees" variety.

Sister!

I used to say the child I bore would be the next King of France or I wouldn't be having it. Confused nosey idiots enough to shut them up.

I love this! 😂

I get asked why I don't date - have posted here recently re new boyfriend, that was a total waste of valuable time - and I say things like "why, what's on offer? Downton Abbey and use of a private jet?"

Oh, same! I used (fortunately I'm old enough now not to get this garbage) to say "There isn't a man alive who interests me," which was the precise truth. Quite effective when the person prying knew, or at least assumed, I was heterosexual.

• Vito "Questions that I consider it extremely rude to ask:Are you married? (Or dating, or any variations on the partnered theme)
• Do you have children?
• Do you have siblings? (Or how many sibs do you have?)
• Do you have pets?
• Where are you from?
• Whereabouts do you live?"

I am the same as you except for the pet one. I don't see it as extremely rude but I don't ask personal questions. The pet thing comes up more if there's people squeeing over a cat video at work or something, but I'll not ask that again, good point.

It is interesting how much personal information people volunteer without being asked. I went to a seminar this week with really lovely people, there was a few of us seated early with tea and coffee and we just had a chat without anyone asking those things.

I was very relieved as I'm not well atm (depression) and had to attend this but everyone was so nice, it cheered me up as well as learning useful things.

six of us who were probably chatting about 20 mins in an otherwise quiet room, no idea if anyone is married, has kids or where they live. Did talk about music, gardening and what people are into on TV.