Why do they take it personally?

[BadCider]

I consider myself happily childfree.

I've never actively wanted a baby - I assumed I'd get the 'urge' but never did. I love my freedom, never felt anything missing.

Around 10 years ago I needed surgery and during this, another issue was discovered and more tests were carried out; long story short, if I wanted children then I would need IVF and even then the chance would be tiny. I cannot conceive naturally.

I remember thinking phew, that's lucky I don't see myself as a mother because that would be devastating! And carried on with my life.

I'm active and in a lot of groups/clubs and meet lots of new people regularly, and with work I travel a lot and smalltalk is needed. So inevitably I'm asked "do you have kids" quite a lot. By women.

When I answer "no" then 80% of them follow up with "oh did you not want them?"

I've found a huge difference in reaction when I give one of two answers- either I say "I can't have children" and I'm met with sympathy and 'oh I'm so sorry' the conversation changes and the interaction continues warmly.

But if I say "I didn't want children." Then I'm met with 'oh' and it's a noticeably less warm interaction.

My feeling is that it's taken as a personal affront, they're offended that I made a different choice, they think I hate kids (I don't).

But me not having kids doesn't mean I judge them for having them - that would be so ridiculous, everyone is different, we all enjoy different things, have different lives etc.

I just wanted to vent! This happened last night at a group, and I was getting on well with a woman until I said I didn't have kids, didn't want them, (she asked) and she actually just blanked me after that!

Incidentally, my husband is never asked. 🙄

I responded to one of these recently by asking the person who asked me about my children, if they had children (just in a friendly chatty way). She did not. So as to not awkwardly and abruptly come to a pause in the conversation I think I asked whether that had been a choice?

First bit? fine. Asking her if that was a choice? not so fine, IMO. You have no idea what personal minefield you might be tiptoeing into here, and frankly, 'oh was that a choice?' is so personal you were lucky she engaged politely. Suppose it hadn't been? suppose it was a source of deep and continuing grief to her that she couldn't have children? Why couldn't you just accept 'no I don't' and move on?

Would be interested to hear what childfree people would actually like to hear back, if their choice to be child free comes up in conversation?

Me? 'oh' and move on. Not that at nearly 70 it comes up that much. Apart from the lady in the charity shop last week whose DD has just started uni and was saying how much we worry about our children leaving home, don't we? (I just nodded and smiled).

Thanks for this feedback. I agree it wasn't exactly what I wanted to ask but I avoided saying "oh" because that would have entered us into a weird awkward silence as though she had said something shocking or wrong. As you can probably tell, I may be overthinking this!

Nevertheless, I am sure I have seen childfree people on here describe a reaction of awkward silence / conversation pausing as not being ideal either. I would really like a phrase or something to say that isn't intrusive but also doesn't lead to the death (or at least brief arrest) of conversation.

Other responses I considered were:

"Good for you!" - horribly inappropriate if it wasn't their choice not to have children, hence avoid at all costs

"Oh that's like, -insert random other person I know who also doesn't have children-" - wtaf, why would they care. Risks lumping all people without children together. Ruled that one out

Smile without saying anything. May come across as deranged.

Neutral, bland comment along the lines of "well there's definitely pros and cons to having or not having children, aren't there" - bit weird and forced, may distress those for whom it was not an choice.

Inhale deeply, hoping they fill the gap or move the conversation along??

I do sort of guess that someone struggling with deep grief over infertility would be less likely to approach me and ask me about my pregnancy and children, but who knows. In my defence as others have said I wouldn't usually ask directly about children until the information was volunteered. It's just, I wanted to return her interest in my children.

Nevertheless, I am sure I have seen childfree people on here describe a reaction of awkward silence / conversation pausing as not being ideal either. I would really like a phrase or something to say that isn't intrusive but also doesn't lead to the death (or at least brief arrest) of conversation

I'm not sure there is a phrase for all occasions, you really have to be guided by the reaction of the person you're talking to.

The problem is that 'do you have children' is so socially embedded as a conversational ice breaker that no-one, childfree or parents, has a smooth way of negotiating the follow-up to the answer no. Rather like 'what do you do for a living?' how do you respond when the answer is 'nothing.' Everyone's got their chat prepared for 'yes, I have three and they're right demons/little angels' or 'I'm a crocodile dentist, just picking the fish out of their teeth is full time' - but no-one prepares themselves for 'No I don't' or 'Nothing.'

Yes you're right I guess. No one size fits all. I do think it is a particularly difficult topic because "No I don't have children" could reflect a situation ranging from devastating personal loss with ongoing unresolved grief and trauma, right through to happy, positive choice (and the person would probably prefer that it was acknowledged as such). And you can't/ shouldn't ask which it is!

I know that being child free attracts a lot of abuse from all quarters but I also think this dichotomy is probably responsible for a lot of weird / inappropriate responses as well.

Yes you're right I guess. No one size fits all. I do think it is a particularly difficult topic because "No I don't have children" could reflect a situation ranging from devastating personal loss with ongoing unresolved grief and trauma, right through to happy, positive choice (and the person would probably prefer that it was acknowledged as such). And you can't/ shouldn't ask which it is!

An additional problem, of course, is that childless not by choice generally attracts sympathy. Cheerfully admit that you never wanted them and for some people you might as well have 'bitter childhating career hag' tattoed across your clavicles.

I have also met lots of people who are a bit of both. They tried for a bit, found that they were infertile, and then moved on to a life without children that they are very happy with. I don't suppose anyone wants a lifetime of others pitying them. My parents neighbours when I was growing up fell into this category. Who knows how much they wanted children in the first place, hard to tell when it was (still can be) so much the "done thing" for married couples to have children. I have the impression that not having children suited them very well, but it's not really possible to know. They were always so lovely, kind to me as a child and they even came to my wedding. It would be hard for me to view people without children as bitter, child hating hags with this first hand experience!

Anyway, nice chatting.

@Limoncellotape I genuinely don't have any problem with people choosing not to have children

That's good of you!

I really didn't want to leave the impression that I thought it was sad or lesser that she didn't have children.

And yet... somehow despite all your protests, this is exactly how your post comes across. I couldn't care less what you think of me not having children, quite frankly, so if it came up in conversation I wouldn't care what you said. Apart from ASKING WHY, oh my god, you were so out of order?

If you were talking about your (hypothetical) dog or cat and asked someone if they had a pet and they said no, what would you say? You'd just move the conversation on, so I don't see why someone saying no to having children is such a shocker. All your proposed thought out responses are awful too. Good for me?? How condescending

I'm sorry that it's come across that way. I really don't feel sorry for people who don't want to have children, I don't know what else to say about it. I don't want to offend anyone. I think the subject of children is rather different to the subject of pets for reasons discussed. For example, I don't have any reason to worry that people will think I disapprove of or want to shame them for not having pets. I have good reason to think that might be the expectation of someone who is child free, because I understand that that experience is common. It's a useful comparison though, maybe I would find these conversations easier if I simply worried less about coming over the wrong way and didn't overthink it. It's hard not to overthink if that way inclined. I'm aware the responses are awful haha, I think I made that clear in my post! I would like to add I did not bluntly say "Why". But yes, could have handled it better that's why I was reflecting on it and asking for advice. Thank you for your advice.

@Limoncellotape Nothing wrong with “fair enough” or “ah OK” and then swiftly moving the conversation on to something else. If you’re going to ask questions like “is that by choice?” then you need to be prepared to get out of a conversational hole. Part of the reason some childless/free people hate the “oh” is that the other person then goes mute and we have to try and rescue the conversation, when they were the ones asking intrusive questions.

Fortunately in this instance the person didn't seem to find the question uncomfortable and we did move on and just have a nice chat. However, in retrospect I felt like that could have gone badly wrong and wasn't a good conversational avenue. I think I was hoping to discover a magical one size fits all phrase that communicates everything I would like it to (I respect your life without children) but obviously, that just isn't possible. I think as you and others have suggested, I could have just relaxed and said ah okay and then said something else 🙈

I don't normally ask people about their children, the other person started a conversation asking me about my pregnancy and children. So I was trying to be reciprocal (as well as being interested / conversational) but I just can get into my own head a bit and need to chill out. I wanted to ask advice and to share the perspective that there may be people who come across badly to the child free but it is because they are lemons not because they hate you. Some very helpful advice thank you.

Please don't ask anyone that again. Not only could it be a really upsetting can of worms, it's nobody's business.

Would be interested to hear what childfree people would actually like to hear back, if their choice to be child free comes up in conversation

I tend to say "Nah" in a dismissive way, as you would if someone asked a silly and vaguely ridiculous question. If more detail is appropriate I say straight out that I wouldn't have wanted children even if I'd ever been in a position to do so, since I didn't like them even when I was one, so that generally kills that line of enquiry!

Would be interested to hear what childfree people would actually like to hear back, if their choice to be child free comes up in conversation

Just another question about something different, perhaps. Continue the conversation down a different avenue. Because there's no need to know why they made that decision, or put them in a position where they're expected to disclose that they didn't make that decision and it was taken out of their hands.

Literally just don't visibly react and keep talking to them about other stuff 🤷🏻‍♀️

'Just another question about something different, perhaps. Continue the conversation down a different avenue'

Yep, same here. If asked whether I have children, I just say 'no'. I don't want to get into details because I can't trust people to be sensitive and empathetic, and I don't want to hear about their kids either, so I would rather just move on to a different topic