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MNers without children

This board is primarily for MNers without children - others are welcome to post but please be respectful

Original poster

Why do they take it personally?

214 replies

BadCider · 04/09/2023 08:18

I consider myself happily childfree.

I've never actively wanted a baby - I assumed I'd get the 'urge' but never did. I love my freedom, never felt anything missing.

Around 10 years ago I needed surgery and during this, another issue was discovered and more tests were carried out; long story short, if I wanted children then I would need IVF and even then the chance would be tiny. I cannot conceive naturally.

I remember thinking phew, that's lucky I don't see myself as a mother because that would be devastating! And carried on with my life.

I'm active and in a lot of groups/clubs and meet lots of new people regularly, and with work I travel a lot and smalltalk is needed. So inevitably I'm asked "do you have kids" quite a lot. By women.

When I answer "no" then 80% of them follow up with "oh did you not want them?"

I've found a huge difference in reaction when I give one of two answers- either I say "I can't have children" and I'm met with sympathy and 'oh I'm so sorry' the conversation changes and the interaction continues warmly.

But if I say "I didn't want children." Then I'm met with 'oh' and it's a noticeably less warm interaction.

My feeling is that it's taken as a personal affront, they're offended that I made a different choice, they think I hate kids (I don't).

But me not having kids doesn't mean I judge them for having them - that would be so ridiculous, everyone is different, we all enjoy different things, have different lives etc.

I just wanted to vent! This happened last night at a group, and I was getting on well with a woman until I said I didn't have kids, didn't want them, (she asked) and she actually just blanked me after that!

Incidentally, my husband is never asked. 🙄

OP posts:
Original poster
BadCider · 05/09/2023 08:18

Isthisexpected · 05/09/2023 07:20

When children are young (under 5) and especially if the parent you're talking to isn't working, then most of the headspace will be taken up by their kids so it's not that odd to find they don't have the energy to go somewhere else with the conversation once you've said you don't want kids.

Parents are too exhausted to talk about anything other than their kids, or find anything else interesting?

Blimey.

OP posts:
RhymesWithTangerine · 05/09/2023 08:25

D3LAN3Y · 04/09/2023 08:49

Some of it is jealousy. A lot of women didn't realise the child free option was an option (as silly as that sounds) due to their family expectations and traditions. Not unless they wanted to rock the boat.

Lol. None of it is jealousy. Zero.

It might be because they have experience of people who didn’t like THEIR children and they now assume that would include you. People aren’t usually friends with anyone who doesn’t like their DC.

Obviously, that isn’t what you meant. But it might be their instincts kicking in.

Original poster
BadCider · 05/09/2023 08:27

fitzwilliamdarcy · 04/09/2023 10:30

I'm both childfree and childless and tend to use one or the other depending on how prepared I am to handle weirdness from strangers. Because you're right - one engenders sympathy and doesn't throw off the conversation, whereas the other just stilts it. I've had that experience many, many times (I know on MN we're all imagining it). The worst was being completely cut out of a conversation at a gala dinner full of professionals I was really excited to network with.

I think people just don't like to feel like you might judge them because you've chosen something different. Which is sort of ironic because it's exactly what it comes across as they're doing, but hey ho.

That's how I feel it is - in my experience, how you answer the question really affects the judgement you receive, intended or not.

OP posts:
KimberleyClark · 05/09/2023 08:27

I’m another childfree person who wanted children but now genuinely happy and relieved not to have had them - feel like I dodged a bullet, I think I would have found being a mother desperately hard. I find it’s something people find it quite hard to get their heads round. It would be great if they could be happy for me that I have got through the pain of infertility and have made a life I enjoy, just like they expected me to be happy for them when they were having their babies (and I was even though also sad for myself). But as a pp said they are only happy if they can pity me.

Lottapianos · 05/09/2023 08:34

There are some very odd perspectives on this thread. Poor parents are so shattered that they can't be expected to talk about anything other than kids? No parent ever feels a pang of jealousy towards people without children?

fitzwilliamdarcy · 05/09/2023 08:40

@Strawberryboost Since your post saying our experiences don’t happen, we’ve had a poster saying that she isn’t interested in talking to people without kids and one who says that parents may assume childfree people dislike their kids (?!) so instinctively shut down conversation to protect them.

This is what we’re talking about. People are bloody weird!

JorisBonson · 05/09/2023 08:43

fitzwilliamdarcy · 05/09/2023 08:40

@Strawberryboost Since your post saying our experiences don’t happen, we’ve had a poster saying that she isn’t interested in talking to people without kids and one who says that parents may assume childfree people dislike their kids (?!) so instinctively shut down conversation to protect them.

This is what we’re talking about. People are bloody weird!

People are so keen to come on here and tell us we're wrong.

fitzwilliamdarcy · 05/09/2023 08:56

RhymesWithTangerine · 05/09/2023 08:25

Lol. None of it is jealousy. Zero.

It might be because they have experience of people who didn’t like THEIR children and they now assume that would include you. People aren’t usually friends with anyone who doesn’t like their DC.

Obviously, that isn’t what you meant. But it might be their instincts kicking in.

Show quote history

This is genuinely baffling to me. We're talking about strangers, here. They don't know your kids, how could they dislike them?

Even if we're doing that "childfree = hates kids" thing again, what exactly are these nebulous "instincts" for? What exactly is the stranger going to do to the parent's children in a simple conversation?

It must be an absolute minefield making small talk for some parents, eh.

fitzwilliamdarcy · 05/09/2023 08:58

JorisBonson · 05/09/2023 08:43

People are so keen to come on here and tell us we're wrong.

Show quote history

It's the loftiness of it. The "oh you see, I'm just so above petty things like this, why can't you be more like meeeee?" of it all.

HB1974 · 05/09/2023 08:59

I had an amusing experience recently at work. I do short term contracts so my colleagues don't know much about me.

I was on a team with 2 other middle aged ladies who included me in a conversation with details of their pregnancies, childbirth stories, etc. I just smiled, and tried to make interested and sympathetic noises.

Then one said to me 'you just feel so uncomfortable don't you!' (Late pregnancy). So I had to come clean.

I said 'I expect so, but I don't have children so I wouldn't know'.

Bless them. They obviously felt so awkward! They were lovely though, it just hadn't occurred to them that another woman approaching 50 had a different life experience!

PosterBoy · 05/09/2023 09:07

BadCider · 05/09/2023 08:14

...you're not interested in talking to anyone that doesn't have children?

Show quote history

It's not the 'doesn't have' it's the 'chose not to have'.

Which is fine as a choice, obviously.

We just won't have enough in common around important values, so what's the point in talking further?

Just thought I would post as I am probably one of those people you describe. I just switch off really, you become instantly uninteresting to me.

fitzwilliamdarcy · 05/09/2023 09:13

@PosterBoy I find it mindbogglingly arrogant that you just stop listening to people who've chosen differently from you (or, sorry, have different "important life values", whatever that means) because they can offer nothing interesting to you. But thanks for being honest, I guess.

You'd also have to ask, wouldn't you, to ascertain whether or not it's a choice or not?

MarshyMcMarshFace · 05/09/2023 09:15

When I answer "no" then 80% of them follow up with "oh did you not want them?"

Anyone stupid or tactless enough, at best nosey enough, to ask such a question doesn’t require your attention.

Ditto if they have allowed their worlds to become so small and inward looking that they can’t communicate unless they are boring on about their kids, reminiscing about childbirth, fretting tediously about schools admissions amongst themselves.

(I am a mother, by the way)

GarlicGrace · 05/09/2023 09:15

it just hadn't occurred to them that another woman approaching 50 had a different life experience!

Yeah, this is how I've interpreted it. I have had women go completely blank at me, as if they'd suddenly found themselves on an alien planet and had no idea what to do.

25% of women in the UK reach 50 without having children, so the single-topic conversationalists are cutting out a big chunk of people now.

Then, of course, there are those like some PPs on this thread, helpfully proving the truth of OP's point by telling childfree women how wrong we are about our own lives 🙄

Strawberryboost · 05/09/2023 09:17

you need to move or start circulating with different people @RoadLess for that to have happened “a lot”!!

MarshyMcMarshFace · 05/09/2023 09:19

PosterBoy · 05/09/2023 09:07

It's not the 'doesn't have' it's the 'chose not to have'.

Which is fine as a choice, obviously.

We just won't have enough in common around important values, so what's the point in talking further?

Just thought I would post as I am probably one of those people you describe. I just switch off really, you become instantly uninteresting to me.

Show quote history

Ha! I have kids but my values are based in listening to people with many different life experiences and perspectives. Values covers a huge area of beliefs and actions.

It’s more important to me that people are open minded than that they have children!

PosterBoy · 05/09/2023 09:24

fitzwilliamdarcy · 05/09/2023 09:13

@PosterBoy I find it mindbogglingly arrogant that you just stop listening to people who've chosen differently from you (or, sorry, have different "important life values", whatever that means) because they can offer nothing interesting to you. But thanks for being honest, I guess.

You'd also have to ask, wouldn't you, to ascertain whether or not it's a choice or not?

I wouldn't be asking, personally, although it sounds like other people do - bit of a risky question to ask someone you don't know well.
So in my case it's information volunteered by the other person.

I just switch off, tbh, at that point. It's a lot less dramatic than jealousy or feeling slighted. More like boredom.

Foxblue · 05/09/2023 09:27

I hate it when you say 'no, not for me!' and they say 'oh, how come?' Because your only real option is to say something self deprecating like 'ooh, I'm too much of a worrier, prefer dogs'

You can't say 'honestly, it looks unrelenting stressful and I find most kids really annoying' because people get offended and take it personally. Even though if you said that about oh, I don't know, owning a parrot or a boat or something, that would be fine. I'm not saying YOU made a bad decision, I'm giving you MY reason because you asked for it?

Why do people ask questions when they only want you to give one kind of answer??
(... its at this point I will say I do, outside of this issue, suspect I am autistic 😆 )

Querypost · 05/09/2023 09:28

I'd say most people who have children, don't care if you didn't want them. It's a personal choice, like everything else.

Perhaps those that do seem to pass judgement are the type of person to take everything personally and by you choosing not to have children, they feel like you think they were out of their mind to have them!

fitzwilliamdarcy · 05/09/2023 09:28

@PosterBoy I guess it's our different life values but I can't fathom the arrogance behind switching off listening to people the moment you discover that they've chosen differently from you. Hopefully your kids' teachers and doctors will all have procreated or will keep it quiet if they've chosen not to.

KimberleyClark · 05/09/2023 09:29

PosterBoy · 05/09/2023 09:24

I wouldn't be asking, personally, although it sounds like other people do - bit of a risky question to ask someone you don't know well.
So in my case it's information volunteered by the other person.

I just switch off, tbh, at that point. It's a lot less dramatic than jealousy or feeling slighted. More like boredom.

Show quote history

Volunteered apropos nothing? Or because you were talking about your kids?

LaMarschallin · 05/09/2023 09:34

PosterBoy

We just won't have enough in common around important values, so what's the point in talking further?

What are the "important values" based around having children?
I have them, probably selfishly, because I wanted them. However, I find I've plenty in common with people who don't have them.
To me, important values are decency, kindness, honesty... The presence or absence of children in your life makes no difference to those.

readingismycardio · 05/09/2023 09:35

MrsPepperp0t · 04/09/2023 08:53

I have children. I can imagine that someone asking that question does so assuming you will say yes and the conversation will naturally flow around your shared experience. It's obviously a huge assumption to make and I'm guessing that when you said no, she was a bit embarrassed at having asked the question and didn't know how to respond.

I honestly can't imagine that anyone would take it as a personal slight that someone else hadn't had kids!

But if they say no you can just say "oh, okay" and move on. Why the need to ask WHY?

Querypost · 05/09/2023 09:35

@PosterBoy

I'll start off by saying that I have two young children.

what "important values" would you not share with someone just because they didn't have children? Are people without children devoid of values?

People become "immediately uninteresting" to you because they decided not to have children? In my mind, people like myself who have children would be the least interesting as you have to prioritise them in the early years. I'll have 12 years with an under 8 year old! I'd say if I met someone my age who hadn't spent the last 12 years rearing young children, they'd have had a damn sight more interesting life than me and I'd be all ears! It's a shame that you might miss out on good relationships out of misplaced, unfounded opinions about people you don't even know. Sad.

Strawberryboost · 05/09/2023 09:37

@PosterBoy

my suspicion is… you are rather lonely and tend to socialise just with family