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MNers without children

This board is primarily for MNers without children - others are welcome to post but please be respectful

Original poster

Why do they take it personally?

214 replies

BadCider · 04/09/2023 08:18

I consider myself happily childfree.

I've never actively wanted a baby - I assumed I'd get the 'urge' but never did. I love my freedom, never felt anything missing.

Around 10 years ago I needed surgery and during this, another issue was discovered and more tests were carried out; long story short, if I wanted children then I would need IVF and even then the chance would be tiny. I cannot conceive naturally.

I remember thinking phew, that's lucky I don't see myself as a mother because that would be devastating! And carried on with my life.

I'm active and in a lot of groups/clubs and meet lots of new people regularly, and with work I travel a lot and smalltalk is needed. So inevitably I'm asked "do you have kids" quite a lot. By women.

When I answer "no" then 80% of them follow up with "oh did you not want them?"

I've found a huge difference in reaction when I give one of two answers- either I say "I can't have children" and I'm met with sympathy and 'oh I'm so sorry' the conversation changes and the interaction continues warmly.

But if I say "I didn't want children." Then I'm met with 'oh' and it's a noticeably less warm interaction.

My feeling is that it's taken as a personal affront, they're offended that I made a different choice, they think I hate kids (I don't).

But me not having kids doesn't mean I judge them for having them - that would be so ridiculous, everyone is different, we all enjoy different things, have different lives etc.

I just wanted to vent! This happened last night at a group, and I was getting on well with a woman until I said I didn't have kids, didn't want them, (she asked) and she actually just blanked me after that!

Incidentally, my husband is never asked. 🙄

OP posts:
IreneGoodnight · 04/09/2023 11:30

Being child free shouldn't stop someone being delighted for expectant parents and taking an interest in other people's kiddies particularly those of relatives and close friends. I'm child free by choice but accept I'm in the minority - and for the sake of humanity thank goodness it IS a minority. I don't understand people who say they can't stand kids. Really? What a weird generalisation!
Being asked whether you have children is par for the course when two adults are getting to know each other and shouldn't cause any awkwardness unless there's been some personal child-related tragedy. Grown ups should respect each others decisions in the matter and can surely find something else to bond over?

MrsPepperp0t · 04/09/2023 12:01

I'm curious to know what the right answer would be. I wouldn't ask someone I barely knew if they had children. But if I did, and they said no, I'd struggle to come up with a reply because it would either be patronising ("good for you!") or nosy ("why not?"). So in the absence of anything else I'd probably say "oh don't you " and that sort of brings the conversation to an end. Especially as there's a vast difference in what would be acceptable to say to someone who has chosen that life vs someone who has had to accept it against their wishes, and to ask which is very prying.

Strawberryboost · 04/09/2023 12:41

@MrsPepperp0t

exactly. It is a lose lose situation. So i would never ever ask in the first place

fitzwilliamdarcy · 04/09/2023 13:11

@MrsPepperp0t I don’t really get why it just ends a conversation. I’ve had people say “fair enough” and then change the subject, much the same way you would if you’d exhausted any other conversational avenue.

I know it’s not as easy as the reverse scenario where you can ask follow up questions about the kids but I find it bizarre that adults routinely find it so challenging to hear that a person has chosen not to have kids that the only response they can think of is “oh” and to ignore the person from there.

Possimpible · 04/09/2023 13:35

@Pootles34 I wouldn't have that shared experience, so there wouldn't really be anywhere for the conversation to go. If it was another childless person, you'd have more to say - hence why this board is so popular I guess!

What..? Why would two women who don't have children have more in common than any other two random strangers? We don't sit in the pub and compare stories about how great our life is without children in it. Do you really not have anything to say to someone except stuff about your child(ren)?

@MrsPepperp0t in the absence of anything else I'd probably say "oh don't you " and that sort of brings the conversation to an end.

I agree with @fitzwilliamdarcy , why wouldn't you just find something else to say? Anything - 'did you travel far to get here?', 'how is your work going?', any other boring small talk in the same vein as 'do you have children?'!

@BadCider I believe you've had this reaction. I also think it's because some people can't understand why you wouldn't want the same life as them, because they have a high opinion of themselves. I recently got married and now 90% of the time when I meet someone new they ask about children. When I say it's not on the cards I get 'oh you'll change your mind'. So frustrating - also they don't know if I even can have kids! It's very rude

MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 04/09/2023 13:42

I recently got married and now 90% of the time when I meet someone new they ask about children. When I say it's not on the cards I get 'oh you'll change your mind'

YEARS ago when I was first married (think, months) a colleague (male) asked me 'Not started a family yet, then?' I was young, polite and instead of telling him to mind his own business said no, we haven't (we had no intention of having children, that was established early). Anyone since then who told me 'you'll change your mind' was asked why given that I've said I don't want them. Invariably I've found they don't have an answer, it's just a knee jerk response - but I'm bitch enough to enjoy putting people on the spot and making them think about what they're saying.

MrsPepperp0t · 04/09/2023 14:17

I mean, yes, obviously when a conversation comes to an end you can start on a different topic. I just meant that it's difficult to follow up on that particular subject because you don't know what that person's situation is. That's why I wouldn't ask someone if they had children!

Tbh I'd steer away from any personal questions if I didn't know someone well, and keep things light and uncontroversial! Eg i wouldn't ask about someone's relationship status/ assume they had living parents or parents they get along with etc because I understand those topics can be deeply personal and potentially intrusive. I guess I was trying to understand the discomfort of the person being described in the OP.

Superfood · 04/09/2023 16:36

Possimpible · 04/09/2023 13:35

@Pootles34 I wouldn't have that shared experience, so there wouldn't really be anywhere for the conversation to go. If it was another childless person, you'd have more to say - hence why this board is so popular I guess!

What..? Why would two women who don't have children have more in common than any other two random strangers? We don't sit in the pub and compare stories about how great our life is without children in it. Do you really not have anything to say to someone except stuff about your child(ren)?

@MrsPepperp0t in the absence of anything else I'd probably say "oh don't you " and that sort of brings the conversation to an end.

I agree with @fitzwilliamdarcy , why wouldn't you just find something else to say? Anything - 'did you travel far to get here?', 'how is your work going?', any other boring small talk in the same vein as 'do you have children?'!

@BadCider I believe you've had this reaction. I also think it's because some people can't understand why you wouldn't want the same life as them, because they have a high opinion of themselves. I recently got married and now 90% of the time when I meet someone new they ask about children. When I say it's not on the cards I get 'oh you'll change your mind'. So frustrating - also they don't know if I even can have kids! It's very rude

We don't sit in the pub and compare stories about how great our life is without children in it.

Isn't this forum the virtual equivalent of exactly that?

There must be some sense of commonality of shared experience in order for people to want this space?

Lasttimehonest · 04/09/2023 16:43

But I assume the sympathetic response to stating you can’t have children (but potentially wanted to) is because there is something there to feel sympathetic about, ie you wanted kids but couldn’t have them - a horrible situation. The reason you probably don’t get the same response in terms of not wanting to have kids is because there is nothing to feel sympathy for - you chose not to have kids - good for you? Would you want them to feel sympathy for your choice?!

fitzwilliamdarcy · 04/09/2023 17:30

Superfood · 04/09/2023 16:36

We don't sit in the pub and compare stories about how great our life is without children in it.

Isn't this forum the virtual equivalent of exactly that?

There must be some sense of commonality of shared experience in order for people to want this space?

Show quote history

Of course this board is about commonality and shared experience.

It doesn’t mean that we’d sit with a parent, completely unable to find a single thing to talk about with them. I think the poster was expressing surprise that two women couldn’t find anything to talk about except children.

(Interestingly, this board makes that point well - there are threads about all sorts of things. not just “how great it is not having kids”.)

fitzwilliamdarcy · 04/09/2023 17:32

Would you want them to feel sympathy for your choice?!

No, just not blanked and ignored, or treated to “oh” and nothing further, as if you’ve lost all possible interest as a conversational partner due to not wanting to have kids.

LoobyDop · 04/09/2023 18:03

MrsPepperp0t · 04/09/2023 08:53

I have children. I can imagine that someone asking that question does so assuming you will say yes and the conversation will naturally flow around your shared experience. It's obviously a huge assumption to make and I'm guessing that when you said no, she was a bit embarrassed at having asked the question and didn't know how to respond.

I honestly can't imagine that anyone would take it as a personal slight that someone else hadn't had kids!

I think there’s a lot of truth in that. It’s just a routine starter question so you can have a nice chat about your kids, and we go and fuck it up for them by saying no. They haven’t got a follow up, and you’ve spoiled the conversation for them. You tend to find that interesting people who are also parents don’t ask.

Lottapianos · 04/09/2023 18:13

'You tend to find that interesting people who are also parents don’t ask.'

That's so true. I joined a new team at work a few years ago - lovely, fun people who are great at their jobs. Mostly mums as it happens. When I joined the team, not one person asked me whether I had children, and I will always be grateful for that, because I was desperately struggling with the baby issue at the time. They talked about their kids (a lot in some cases) and when I didn't share about my (non existent!) kids, they managed to put 2 and 2 together themselves. Conversations really can happen without asking whether someone has kids!

musixa · 04/09/2023 18:20

I think sometimes it's because you have declared yourself 'out' of whatever competitive parenting games they are in with other people.

AllProperTeaIsTheft · 04/09/2023 18:29

I've found a huge difference in reaction when I give one of two answers- either I say "I can't have children" and I'm met with sympathy and 'oh I'm so sorry' the conversation changes and the interaction continues warmly.

But if I say "I didn't want children." Then I'm met with 'oh' and it's a noticeably less warm interaction.

But surely it's perfectly natural to respond sympathetically and kindly to someone who has said they are unable to do something (the implication being that they want to but can't), and not to respond that way if they have no interest in doing that thing?

If I were talking to someone about, say, international travel, and they said "I'm not able to travel" (perhaps due to a physical issue or something else), I'd respond sympathetically. If they said "Nah, don't want to", I'd probably reply "Oh... ok" and change the subject.

PrincessOfTigger · 04/09/2023 21:02

MrsPepperp0t · 04/09/2023 12:01

I'm curious to know what the right answer would be. I wouldn't ask someone I barely knew if they had children. But if I did, and they said no, I'd struggle to come up with a reply because it would either be patronising ("good for you!") or nosy ("why not?"). So in the absence of anything else I'd probably say "oh don't you " and that sort of brings the conversation to an end. Especially as there's a vast difference in what would be acceptable to say to someone who has chosen that life vs someone who has had to accept it against their wishes, and to ask which is very prying.

I think you’re right. I wouldn’t ask someone in the first place especially because I was childless for a long time so I can relate (it was a bit different with me though because I DID want children but I didn’t want a partner). People would ask me and I’d say no and then it would be a bit awkward because people didn’t know what to say next. Or they’d say something patronising like I just hadn’t met the right person yet (I’d think good, I don’t want to meet him 😆). Or friends with children would have conversations completely over my head and I’d feel I had nothing to contribute.

Now that I do have a dc I understand better. They are 99% of your bandwidth, especially when they’re young. And if someone is infertile you don’t want to upset them by going on about your child, and if they aren’t into children then 99% of my life is going to bore them.

I also don’t think it’s selfish to not have children… it would be more selfish to have them if your heart wasn’t in it.

TheOGCCL · 04/09/2023 21:03

It’s pretty lazy small talk really. Whether or not someone has kids comes up pretty quickly in what you say in the course of a conversation, it doesn’t need an explicit question.

Strawberryboost · 05/09/2023 06:36

There is a lot to be said Op to realising that the vast and overwhelming majority of people really do not give a flying fig about you. Let alone your choices as to whether to pro create or not.

and I would be floored if this woman “blanked” you just on account of you not having / wanting children.

Focus on not seeing shadows in life rather than actively seeking them out

RoadLess · 05/09/2023 06:48

Strawberryboost · 05/09/2023 06:36

There is a lot to be said Op to realising that the vast and overwhelming majority of people really do not give a flying fig about you. Let alone your choices as to whether to pro create or not.

and I would be floored if this woman “blanked” you just on account of you not having / wanting children.

Focus on not seeing shadows in life rather than actively seeking them out

And yet, as a sunny optimist, it happened to me a lot when I was childfree and perfectly happy about it. Sure, it’s just lazy small talk from strangers who don’t understand that not having children (rather than wanting but not managing to have them) is possible, but it’s mildly disconcerting how one deeply ordinary life decision can really throw people.

Strawberryboost · 05/09/2023 06:51

@RoadLess you were blanked “a lot”?

Thequeenofthetypis · 05/09/2023 06:55

I have kids. I never ask other women ( or men) if they have kids because I genuinely don't care. I'm not really interested in other people's kids, or lack thereof.
But I can slso count on one hand the number of times I have been asked. I think it's usually just people trying to fill a silence, make polite small talk. Sort of " terrible weather we're having".

RoadLess · 05/09/2023 06:59

Strawberryboost · 05/09/2023 06:51

@RoadLess you were blanked “a lot”?

Had people visibly turn off, get disconcerted or say odd or intrusive things when they found that not only I didn’t have children, I didn’t want them? Yes, absolutely. It didn’t enormously bother me, but it was quite odd.

PosterBoy · 05/09/2023 07:07

For me, it's not jealousy or taking it personally.

It's just that you've short handedly announced a few qualities about yourself that cause me to stop having any further interest in you as a person beyond a really shallow level.

Some people are like that with people's political views, for a different example.

Isthisexpected · 05/09/2023 07:20

When children are young (under 5) and especially if the parent you're talking to isn't working, then most of the headspace will be taken up by their kids so it's not that odd to find they don't have the energy to go somewhere else with the conversation once you've said you don't want kids.

Original poster
BadCider · 05/09/2023 08:14

PosterBoy · 05/09/2023 07:07

For me, it's not jealousy or taking it personally.

It's just that you've short handedly announced a few qualities about yourself that cause me to stop having any further interest in you as a person beyond a really shallow level.

Some people are like that with people's political views, for a different example.

...you're not interested in talking to anyone that doesn't have children?

OP posts: