God, my au pair/mother's help just kicked my 5 year old!

[kittywise]

Obviously I've told her she has to leave today. I'm so pissed off . Just needed to vent

Well I didn't say that you'd made my day. It's been a good day generally and this is only an internet discussion site.

But if the best applicant for the job happens to be black, and you happen to employ her - well that is good news.

tankie: "It's against the law of the land to discriminate against someone on the basis of skin colour too."

Just want to clarify this point. I seem to recall this - to the extent that the kittywits household are hiring a live-in domestic employee, the employment laws against discrimination do not apply. In other words, they are legally entitled to discriminate. I imagine because the law recognises the special sensitivities of a live-in domestic arrangement as against the usual employer-employee relationship.

Mr Kitty, I'm not off track at all, your lovely wife decided to make some derogatory remarks about all British cleaners being lazy, as well as her intimations that all black (oh sorry, West African) aupairs come from a culture where kicking children is de rigeur.

blueshoes - I don't see how any employer can be above the law. The Race Relations Act is very clear about racial discrimination. Never mind 'special sensitivities'

Once upon a time a thread on mumsnet had me banging my head against a brick wall

Yes, I remember it all this time later. At the end of it I learned something - next time don't bother.

Having said this, I don't think it is appropriate that people have come onto this thread and judged someone having an AP - that shouldn't be up for criticism imo.

There are exceptions from the various discrimination acts in employment law, for example in health promotion you sometimes see posts that are designed to work with specific communities, where they are looking for someone from that community (it has been shown that it is for example more effective for a gay man to speak to groups of gay men about health messages like safer sex etc; or a Bangladeshi woman to reach out to isolated communities of Bangladeshi women). It is always clearly stated in the advertisements for such roles that special exemption has been sought for these roles.

I wouldn't be surprised if there were exemptions for domestic live in workers, but when I was looking for a nanny, it certainly was never something you would see in an advert - "wanted white nanny". I think it would be bizarre, although perhaps the "must speak good English" is a euphemism. The world of aupairs is probably a very different one. I don't think that it is particularly beyond criticism though. The original concept of the aupair was a young girl (almost always) who would live in your family, pretty much as a member of the family, for a short period whilst she learnt English, who gave the mum (usually) general help for two or three hours a day. The aupair plus concept seems to change this to basically cheap childcare, for those who don't want to pay for a nanny (which granted is an expensive option). The part of the family side seems to have slipped a little for many, and I don't know how much people take in that the aupair may have little or no previous experience with children, and indeed may not ever like them very much, just using it as an easy way to get to a different country.

Is this thread still going???! I am by no means condoning racism. It is of course intollerable but Kitty has made it clear that the comment she made was clumsy and not meant to offend.

FWIW I have met Kitty on many threads and never found her to be anything but pleasant and supportive. The picture you have painted of her in my opinion is completely inaccurate based upon one flippant remark, which granted, was poorly worded but she has acknowledged this and apologised.

Changing the subject slightly but have just looked at your profile Kitty all your children are so cute and ds1 is stunningly handsome!

bless you treeandmistlejoe, how very kind of you.

blueshoes, yes I shallbe very fussy about who I have to live amoungst us and I shall take lots of things into consideration.

Still at least the lovely cleaner starts this week

Just for interest, I've had 2 Italian males apply for the pace. As much as they were very handsome and only 21, i have wrestled myself to the ground and decided not to go for them on the grounds that they probably want another mother(sigh)

ofgs, this thread has got ridiculous and I was someone one of the first to comment on what kitty said. It's become a personal hounding which is completely undeserved.

I also stand by my comment that I would think it odd if kitty didnt hire help of some sort with 6 kids and a large house if she has the money. There's no gain in being a martyr...

Agree completely that if you have the money, why on earth not have an au pair to help with the children/housework.

Perhaps because some people might find it more stressful than not having an ap etc?

Mr K writing:

Are we talking about the same person Nooka? I don't recognise Kitty in anything you've written. I think you may have mistaken her for someone else. In another forum it might be considered libel.

Funny you should mention Bangladeshis, maybe you do know something about us but you're not letting on?

Actually Juule, that's very true - I couldn't do it because the idea of someone else living with us makes me shiver, plus it does seem very hard to find someone who slots neatly into your family in every way.

But if you can find the right person, and have the money and space... then why not?

Mr Kitty, if there is anything to learn from this thread, it is that your wife is under enormous strain with all your children, and she needs help with the house and your family. Can you allocate a higher budget for home help, or starting to pull your weight a bit more yourself?

What good is a wife to you, if she is struggling so much? Homelife would be happier for all if she had more help. Be it a cleaner, a more supportive husband, and also a nanny?

What are YOU planning to do about this situation, other than sitting on a forum defending your decisions? OF COURSE you should sack an au pair who hurts your child, whatever her skin colour or religious belief, but what WILL you do next to help your family?

Mr K writing:

I'm not defending my decisions Queeny, I'm not even defending K's decisions.

Whenever we don't have an au pair K is under too much pressure. That's why she has an au pair. The budget easily covers this. You have no idea how supportive or unsupportive I am.

I'm not sure your questions are at all relevant to this thread or that anyone is that interested Queeny but thankyou for your kind concern.

woah, who said the mr kitty doesn't pull his weight??? with 6 kids i don't know many people who wouldn't need or want help from cleaner/ aupair/ mother's help etc particularly with a very demanding little one.

i think everyone is being very presumptious here now! what mr and mrs kitty do and how they split their domestic chores is bugger all to do with any of us, everyone seems to have gone wildly off on a tangent on this thread.

trust me, having read many posts by her before she is not the witch you are portraying her to be. i think you are all jumping on the 'flame mr and mrs kitty' bandwagon tbh.

Treeandmistlejoe, hunt out my previous post on this thread and see how much I am flaming Kitty. You also jump to conclusions my friend.

Dear Mr K, I am using as source only what Mrs K has written on this thread. How could I use anything else? I have no idea who she is, or what she does in the rest of her life, which may be completely admirable (and I hope it is). I'm sure there are other threads where I have agreed with her, although I'm not good at keeping track of names. I think proving libel would be very hard, although I am very glad that you think her posts here are out of character.

Key sources:
"we cannot have a black person again because of the cultural differences as far as child rearing is concerned"
"A huge swathe of English workers have a crap attitude and are lazy" and "The English have become a lazy, workshy nation"

thread not going your way?people disagreeing?i know get your husband/mum/any sycophant to stick their oar in

because that will be a compelling dialogue and surely convince the most ardent of posters that they are wrong

risible to threaten libel

risible is such a fantastic word

and so apt in this context - well the vague threat of an action for libel made me laugh anyway.

Mr K writing:

Nooka: stick with your source material then! No need to make things up surely?

Scottish/Quattro: nobody has threatened legal action. Are you getting confused?

Mr K fighting Mrs K's battles? Now that's risible.

L word had been bandied "In another forum it might be considered libel" what will MrK say now?

Nothing "made up" but if all we did here was quote each other it wouldn't be a discussion board now would it?

Mr K writing:

So using the "L-word" constitutes a threat of legal action ScottishMummy? Are you serious? Are you a troll?

I can't be the only person laughing at the OP's derision of the workshy English, whilst at the same time hiring in an AP whilst being a SAHP. Workshy or what?