God, my au pair/mother's help just kicked my 5 year old!

[kittywise]

Obviously I've told her she has to leave today. I'm so pissed off . Just needed to vent

By kittywise on Fri 12-Dec-08 07:12:54

As I said Every English person I have ever employed has been very disappointing EVERY foreign person has been great. I am now going on my experience and will not even interview an English applicant.

My experience of 10 years of employing people has shown EVERY SINGLE TIME that English person was as good as useless and I've always kicked myself for giving them "another chance".

Still making sweeping generalisations then.

Not sure how that's a sweeping generalisation, yearofthecat. If that is Kitty's experience of the people she employed, then that's her experience. Of course, it doesn't mean that EVERY English person is useless and EVERY foreign person is great, just the ones in Kitty's employ in her opinion (might be just right for someone else).

Juule, it the fact that based on her (presumably relatively limited) experience of employing english people, she states she will not even interview an English applicant. If a larger employer based their recruitment policies on this sort of attitude, there would be outcry, and they would rightly end up in an industrial tribunal.

yearofthecat, it is my expereince, having employed a number of people of the years to do with the house and garden.

Dp is self employed, he has had employees in the past and often has to use sub contactots. his experince is the same.

A huge swathe of English workers have a crap attitude and are lazy. Many are not, at least I hope so. I have not come come across them, sadlu,

And of course employers with will prejudiced against certain groups of people because of bad experiences they have had in the pat,. They might not want to employ a certain sort in the future. They will of course not state this fact they will and do however give the job to someone else on the grounds that they are better.

I wish to God that the english people I have come across were honest, hardworking, reliable etc etc, but they were not. This are my fellow countrymen here and it makes me ashamed.

Excuse typos, right got to get on, will check in later

Totally drop the ironing! Can't remember last time I had the iron out (possibly for a linen dress in the summer). DP does a few shirts for work of a Sunday night. And that's it.

Just don't see the need to do kids clothes, sheets, tea towels, jeans, etc. Just hang them out to dry a bit quicker - they'll be fine.

Just wanted to add that my DCs' nanny (she lives in) is from Senegal (i.e. she's black) and my main bugbear with her is that she's too soft on DS1. So the whole idea that all West Africans are overly strict is wrong.

BUT, having lived in West Africa, I think it is true to say that there is a stronger propensity for families to use old fashioned methods of discipline** - rightly or wrongly - and certainly, corporal punishment is still used in many schools from what i have heard. In any case, you rarely see naughty children or hear tantrums.

** By that, I don't mean that kids are beaten to within an inch of their lives or anything like that.

I actually would not use race or nationality as a means to select childcare. There's good'uns and bad'uns in every country and that certainly includes this one. I had a laugh to myself when i read that someone would only used Slovak au pairs or something like that. My friend certainly wouldn't - hers ended up shagging her husband....

Perhaps, good English nannies are hard to find because any worth their salt are probably working for vast amounts of money in the States or Middle East, not the relative pittance they'd get here.

In essence, the aim of most au pairs is not to pursue a career in childcare but to secure themselves a place to live while they learn English/earn money to send to their families or whatever.

Anyway, good luck Kittywise, with finding yourself another nanny. You need it with 6 kids - don't know how you cope!

Kitty totally agree with you about English attitudes to hard work

Part of my job is getting unemployed people into work and find that migrants/new communities are really keen to find work and are happy to work hard - its a pride thing and they expect to work. There is a whole residue of people who have grown up in the UK who don't work, have never worked, their parents have never worked etc - they literally don't know what "work" is.

They would never consider "menial" jobs (cleaning/driving a bus etc) - we worked with several bus companies who have to recruit in Poland as Engish people aren't prepared to drive buses

Deffo drop the ironing

• I am allergic to ironing actually

It is as ridiculous to extrapolate from the long term unemployed to all English people, as it is from one or two British cleaners kittywise has employed to all British cleaners.
Obviously some British/English people have poor work attitudes, but it is quite possible they may be concentrated in mygreatauntgriselda4christmas's caseload, or kittywise's shortlists.

When we were in NYC the children went to a school with many Korean children. Should I say all Korean children speak nicely because when the children were electing reps to their school council, there were several Korean children who gave good stump speeches? Of course not. Those kids speak well. I have no knowledge of the millions of other Korean children out there, just as kittywise cannot know about all the other British cleaners, or mygreatauntgriselda4christmas about all English workers.

Very lazy thinking.

nooka don't be daft, so great aunt and I have had the great misfortune to employ/deal with the only lazy arse English?

You hear our complaints echoed all over the place.

The English have become a lazy, workshy nation.

also, let's not forget all those English who didn't even get as far as an interview process because they didn't phone on time, turn up on time, turn up at all. I had one woman who was supposed to be coming for an interview, she only lived down the road, she phoned me up minutes before she was supposed to arrive saying it was raining and she had a bit of a cold could she come round another time. needless to say I gave the job to the mexican girl who found her way here on the same day, on her own from the middle of town, in the pouring rain and then when she got her just went and tidied up the house. I didn't rally need to interview that one. She was wonderful

The foreign workers I've had have worked hard for all the hours they are due to work. The English on the other hand expected to be paid for breaks, took breaks whenever they felt like it, lived off tea, ate food when they were supposed to be working, brought their dogs with them(ffs), that happened a few times, went out for constant fag breaks. They couldn't clean and had no pride in their work.

They turned up late, didn't turn up, left early , etc etc. I could keep going but it is too depressing

I've just read through this thread and it's an eyeopener for me as a fairly new poster.

God almighty! As a black woman, I sometimes think I am being "oversensitive" as one poster so charmingly put it, and then I read things like this, and I am just openmouthed at the level of casual racism displayed.

Just to englighten you:

1)It's "racism", not "racsism".

2)Black people come from different countries, cultures, backgrounds. We are not all one homogeneous group who kick children.

3)You are bang out of order, lady. And should acknowledge that to all those you have offended.

4. I hope you raise your awareness of racial prejudice and stereotypes. Read a book or something. Because, if your kids are mixed race, someone will, at some stage, throw exactly this sort of ill-informed rubbish at them and then you'll know what it is like from the other side.

I fully expect you to ignore this as you have all the other "black" posters who have contributed to this thread. Shame on you. Really.

well said cakeordeath - also, well said earlier by tankie!

I have to say, that I am frankly appalled that as actual, real life, non child kicking, child carer black people, our views have been totally ignored.

I've just scanned through this thread... and it reminded me of my very first teacher of primary school. She was a black lady from Jamaica called Mrs JArvis and she only taught me for 6 months (I started in Jan then moved up to the next class the following Sept). I remember her because she was kind and motherly and I and all the other children loved her. The teacher in my next class well she was white and blond, can't remember her name but she was horrid and nasty and clearly hated kids
Shame on you Kittywise for judging someone on the colour of their skin and for trying to uphold nonsensical stereotypes.
I have some friends who I did AN classes with, we are all white middle class, degree educated people from very similar lines of work yet we all have VERY different ideas on child rearing.
So can you not extrapolate to how fundamentally stupid your sweeping statements on black people can be? If me and my white friends can have different views and outlooks, surely the same should and must be thought of to people who happen to have black skin?

blimey. most people (except self employed) in most jobs get paid for their breaks. I would be very cross if I didn't in the jobs I have done. Its not lazy to think you should. Obviously a lot of mean and greedy employers will exploit foreign wokers who have lower expectations.

paid breaks??
whats that, as a nanny, I don't even get an actual break lol

You don't get paid for breaks. no and if you are working 4 hours you shouldn't have a break.

You lot still banging on about the (non) racist comment. I already talked about that. Give it a rest now fgs. Or don't if you choose but don't expect anymore response from me on that score.

regardless if how it was meant, it was bloody offensive.

as a black person, I should not have to come on here+read shit like that, it absolutely appalled me+I will not let it go.

I took great offense at it+if you can't understand that, then I pity greatly!

I pity you* greatly

Yes I can understand that and have apologised. more than once I won't apologise again though . If you chose not to let it go than that is you choice.

BTW everyone is entitled to breaks but you are NOT paid for your breaks. I know this because dp is an employer, he knows employment laws very well as you might expect. The pay you get does NOT include the time you take off for breaks.

There is no need to pity me I am happy with where I am and who I am.

"You lot"? Seriously, "You lot"?
FFS, I give up.
I will leave the thread. Only because I am genuinely upset and don't need to see stuff like that. Thanks Kittywise, it's been instructive....

So you wouldn't employ a black or english person again?
Good for you

I've given some thought to this thread and I think kittywise has explained her comment. I find it very hard to reconcile that she would hire a black nanny in the first place if she was in any way racist.
It would be silly to say that people from different places arent often culturally different. DH is from sri lanka and his family have often pretty different views on parenting to me. Dh and I occasionally have heated discussions about ways of parenting.

She did word it abismally but has paid the price for that since!