Help, my new nanny is a bit shouty, and I'm worried, and would like advice on how to handle it

[PrincessPeaHead]

My lovely calm, quiet, loving nanny of 5 years left last week, and a new nanny started. She is NNEB, worked in a nursery (baby room) most recently, nannied for 2 children before that. She's now been with us for just over a week.

I'm a little worried about how she interacts with the children. She has been playing quite well with DD1 (9), and has been givena very hard time by DD2 (16 months) who screams at strangers generally and hasn't settled with her yet (screamed constantly yesteerday morning when I went to the supermarket apparently). DS1 (6) has been OK with her, DS2 (3) had his tonsils and adenoids out last Tues and was feeling rotten until this weekend.

She is a bit of a sargeant major - issues orders and won't brook any discussion at all, even when it would be (I think) completely reasonable to listen to what they are saying. eg she was asking them to go upstairs for a bath - we have two staircases to go up, and DS2 wanted to go up the other one to the one she was asking him to go up - and she was raising her voice and saying "DS2, I have asked you to go up to your bath and you need to go up these stairs NOW". I don't see why he couldn't have gone up the other ones if he wanted to. There are lots of other examples - I don't think I heard my last nanny raise her voice more than about 2ce (usually in situations where I would have strangled them hours previously!), whereas raising her voice appears to be this nannies MO.
My 9 year old has asked me why she shouts so much
My housekeeper has told me she is concerned.

What do I do?

Oh dear I just came back from school and the younger two were having a picnic supper in the garden - lovely. The nanny zoomed into the kitchen to make sandwiches for the older ones (why didn't she do them all at the same time?) while I was still unloading the car etc at the front - she left dd2 and ds2 in the garden alone and when I went out dd2 was in a sort of thicket with thistles in her feet.

There is also a paddling pool out there.

DS2 can be left by himself safely in those circs, but DD2 is only 16 months and can't be. I'm a bit shocked. She might have assumed that I had gone straight into the garden, but I hadn't. She should have taken dd2 into the kitchen with her.

I've just remembered I am at work all day on Monday, so won't be able to speak to her. Maybe I can have a word when the children are bathed and ready for bed? Except they usually are by now, and it is 6.00 and they are still picnicing in the garden and she leaves at 6.30.

Bugger, it isn't the sort of conversation I can have on the phone I don't think...

I would definitely have a chat with her before she leaves tonight or you will not enjoy your weekend. Ask her to stay for a few extra minutes at the end of the day. I never have finished on time and its never been a problem.

Are you on your own with them or is DH or the HK around?

If they are, could they take the children up for their bath while you speak to the nanny?

You may be more resiliant than me when it comes to these sorts of things, but I tend to brood badly over them, which would ruin my weekend. In your shoes, I would have to find a way of having the conversation before she left for the weekend.

Is there any way in which you can change days at work next week? It sounds as if she has no idea of what is safe and what isn't with the children.

Sooooo

1. She has raised her voice as a means of instiling discipline, when everyone worth their salt knows that this never works long-term. I cannot for the life of me imagine that this hasn't already been instilled in her during her previous jobs, so she either fundamentally disagrees with the current thinking on how best to install discpline, OR the work she is doing is stressing her out so much at the moment that she is reacting on instinct. Neither scenario bode well for building up good trust between the two of you.

2. She is choosing to have fights that are not necessary - what on earth is going to happen when one of your children starts to rebel? Punishments?

3. When you should be working she has allowed one of her charges to interfere with your work, instead of just sweeping DD up and away and getting on with her job of looking after them all

4. Presuming you clearly explained her duties in terms of the childrens' clothes/toys, she is already neglecting parts of her work

And this is in the very week when she will be concentrating most on making the very best impression.

IMO finding a good nanny is far and away the hardest and most stressful part of being a working mother and believe me I know how much you need to be flexible and bend to do the best thing by everyone and keep things on an even keel (am going through a nightmare of my own on this front, will probably post my own thread soon), BUT I don't in all honesty see this one improving.... I suspect you might end up putting up with more and more as time goes on - and even if she agrees to be more reasonable and calm in future, will you trust that to happen when you and/or HK are not around?

Sorry to come up with lots of negatives, but unless you can be convinced of a complete back-tracking once you talk you should call a halt pretty quickly. It will show good respect to your HK and if you ignore what your HK says now, she may not say anything next time...

Oh crikey! Did you say anything to her about paddling pool at the time?

16 months old and water is so dangerous. If you are not going to see her/ be rushing on Monday you need to say something today about dd2 and safety, and when you agree it is OK for her to be anywhere without an adult in the room/within eyesight.

And I missed that last post about the garden If this was an au-pair I'd sit down and explain about dangers. But an experienced nanny?

Oh dear, it seems to be getting worse every time you post

I would really try and have a word before she goes. Agree with yogimum and soapbox.

Good luck

She might actually realise herself that she has bitten off more than can chew and may be thankful to find something else but afraid to say anything. I wouldn't leave her alone with your children, not with all them anyway. Could you cope until you found someone new? Contact the agency to find a replacement?

All of your posts have a generic tone princess pea - your are not happy with her. Otherwise you wouldn't have written the thread initially.
Also your HK mentioning it is probably a good sign that things are not right. The nanny would tend to be more relaxed and natural aroud her and well, if she's concerned there's obviously more shouting and short temperness than you see.

Go with your instinct and I think you have painted a very clear picture that you are not comfortable with her standard and her disposition.

They are your children and the most important staff within a household is their carer.

Well I've just had a necessarily short conversation with her (post bath, three children in PJs running around the garden, baby on hip).
I said "well end of first proper week, what do you think?"
(smiling) "yes, its been good, its tiring though, I'm surprised at how tired I am"
"its nice that dd2 has taken to you much better today"
"yes, that's great"
"so do you feel you are getting to know the children?"
"yes, a little bit, I think so"
"and the older ones?"
"yes, a bit, but it is a bit difficult with them sometimes because they just don't listen to me basically"
"do you think maybe they are testing you a bit, they are a bit sad about Old Nanny going?"
(nodding) "Yes, testing me, I'm sure that's it"
"The thing about them is that they are all very...... logical kids. They respond much better to logic and reason and explanation than raised voices"
"yes, I can see that"
"for example, DS2 is very logical, very eager to please, but likes to know that things make sense. I heard a bit of a hoo-ha the ohter day about him going up for his bath and what stairs he should use - he didn't think it was logical that he should be made to use one stairs when he could have got to the bath using the other ones"
"right, yes I see. Yes. OK, well I'm sure it will be fine. Well, I'll see you on Monday!"
"yes I'll be fine"
"you really can't leave DD2 in the garden by herself, there is water there, and nettles and..."
(hand on head, shaking)"no I know, I don't know what I was thinking of, I would never do that, I don't know why I did..."
"You can leave DS2 out there safely, but really not her"
"Absolutely, yes I know, I'm really sorry, OK"

That was it really.

whoops missed out a line "well you won't see me much on monday, a few minutes at the beginning and end of the day, will you be OK?"
"yes, I'll be fine..." etc

I don't know why I'm dithering aobut this, it isn't really like me.

I think it is because I personally like her, I feel responsible for taking her out of a job that she had been in happily for 3 years (although I'm sure they'd have her back), and I feel I ought to give her a fair go.

But it just isn't right, is it.

she sounds like she's bitten off more than she can chew

well, it's also fairer on her if she's not coping

to get rid I mean

(and it's never easy having to do that really)

Leaving a 16mo alone in a garden with water? You've got to get rid. She might be fine with a smaller family etc but she's def not right for you. And she expects children to automatically LISTEN and behave? Blimey, what planet's she from?

Oh crumbs. She sounds very well-meaning from the conversation, but that's not really enough when it comes to safety, is it. Arrgh. Will the HK be around on Monday? Could you ask her to keep her eyes peeled if you can't change your days?

Oh snap with Tamum and WWW.
I was just going to say what hours does your HK do on Monday, and can she do more?

OK I've just spoken to the woman at the agency who I got her from who was completely brilliant. She is going to phone her for a chat "hello, just wondered how everything was going", and see whether anything comes out of that. But basically she said that if I don't feel that I can trust her, she isn't the right nanny for us, and she will do eerything she can to find the right one (at no additional charge, obviously). She really talked it through well with me, and although she was too diplomatic to say so, she thinks I should cut loose and try again.

So I really need her on Monday, and I'm sure she'll be OK (and the HK will be there until early afternoon), then I'll do the deed after that.

AURGHGHGHGHGH

I think she'll be fine for 5 hours alone in the afternoon (2 of which DD2 will be asleep), but I may get a mate of mine to drop in on the way back from school for a spurious reason.

when you get a replacement is it possible to take a couple of weeks off work to ease the nanny into the position? Hopefully you will find someone who has experience of four children next time who have different needs. At least if you were home you could see what is going on. this particular nanny sounds a bit immature IMO? Not quite sure of your situation so I apologise in advance but how did the last nanny fit in the cooking washing and ironing whilst looking after the children. Are they still taking naps? I wish you lots of luck you sound like a nice person to work for but your children have to come first so don't feel guilty.

Actually yogimum I don't work at the moment (but hope to start again in Sept - monday is an unusual but long standing arrangement for just that day). So normally it is shared care. During term time she does very little with the older ones except some of the school runs (in which case I'm with the younger ones) and feeding them in the evening. It really isn't a particularly onerous job, it just requires a bit of organisation. Littlest one naps for a couple of hours every afternoon (during which time no 3 watches tv for an hour), and it is only the childrens washing (which is one big wash every evening - off the kids and into the machine).

If I do start working again in Sept it will be a max of 1 day a week (and not summer hols). And no 3 will be at nursery school 4 days a week (he will be 4 by then)

bump for tootyfrooty and eleusis and other lovely helpful posters

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any more views? please?