Help, my new nanny is a bit shouty, and I'm worried, and would like advice on how to handle it

[PrincessPeaHead]

My lovely calm, quiet, loving nanny of 5 years left last week, and a new nanny started. She is NNEB, worked in a nursery (baby room) most recently, nannied for 2 children before that. She's now been with us for just over a week.

I'm a little worried about how she interacts with the children. She has been playing quite well with DD1 (9), and has been givena very hard time by DD2 (16 months) who screams at strangers generally and hasn't settled with her yet (screamed constantly yesteerday morning when I went to the supermarket apparently). DS1 (6) has been OK with her, DS2 (3) had his tonsils and adenoids out last Tues and was feeling rotten until this weekend.

She is a bit of a sargeant major - issues orders and won't brook any discussion at all, even when it would be (I think) completely reasonable to listen to what they are saying. eg she was asking them to go upstairs for a bath - we have two staircases to go up, and DS2 wanted to go up the other one to the one she was asking him to go up - and she was raising her voice and saying "DS2, I have asked you to go up to your bath and you need to go up these stairs NOW". I don't see why he couldn't have gone up the other ones if he wanted to. There are lots of other examples - I don't think I heard my last nanny raise her voice more than about 2ce (usually in situations where I would have strangled them hours previously!), whereas raising her voice appears to be this nannies MO.
My 9 year old has asked me why she shouts so much
My housekeeper has told me she is concerned.

What do I do?

Is she on a trial period? I would talk to her and if it continues, I would let her go.....

Easy for me to say - but she goes, as far as I'm concerned.

I think that sort of thing is very much 'who you are' and IMO would be almost impossible to change.

Sorry, as it's so awful, but I would say game over.

Totally agree with both - sorry

My first observation is that your new nanny was previously in a nursery, thus needs to adjust to working in a home setting.

Given the age of DD1 and DS1, she can discuss things with them, rather than order them around.

The stairs issue is interesting... DS2 was complying with the original request to go upstairs for a bath. He just wanted to go up different stairs. New nanny needs to chill a bit and accept that children are not robots.

Have a chat with the nanny regarding shouting at the children. After all the children all hear fine, so can she lower the volume and talk to them, rather than order them around.

PPH

I am a nanny employer (but full time WOHM with one child so totally different experience). And am rather bad at taking the bull by the horns where my (basically lovely) nanny's shortcomings are concerned.

However, in this situation, I think I would perhaps ask her to stay for an informal chat/drink after all the children are in bed and raise the issue. I think you will discover a great deal about whether it is "game over" by the way she reacts to your concerns. Then I would observe her for another week or so and if things don't improve, I think she is probabnly not the right nanny for you

How long is ehr trail period?

Do the children like her? If she won't stop shouting then I would expect the children to take a dislike to her, so see how the trial period goes, see if she will change, and consider other applicants.

Very tricky PPH. My suggestion would be to Sit Down and Talk to Her About It but it sounds like it's her way of doing things so she may not take any notice or else become soflty spoken for a while then revert to type.

I have a lovely nanny who is very gentle in her approach but choses her battles well. For example - the choice of which ataircase to go up certainly wouldn't be one of them. My dses (toddlers) know that when she tells them off she really means but she still manages to do it in a calm way without getting all shouty. I like to think that she and I have similar approaches but I'm probably flattering myself! I'm not sure that it's good to have a nanny who has such a different parenting style to you because it will make things harder for the dc in terms of boundaries and behaviour. Is she on probabtion? How about having the chat (for the sake of order), watching her like a hawk and getting rid if she doesn't change.

If you are Wiltshire way then I know a good nanny who is looking for a job (our old nanny) and she thrives on being busy.

Tooty Frooty I think you and I agree on this - and you have expressed it rather better than me........

tooty frooty I am in wiltshire! (north)

I'll def have a chat with her, I'm jsut worried that if this is her instinctive approach, she is the wrong nanny for us.

It wouldn't cross my mind to have a battle over which staircase to go up, as longa s they go up (as you say nannynick). Also DS2 is such a sweet, helpful, kind little chap who has never been shouted at in his life because there is never any need to - he is mr super-logical and if you just tell him what you'd like him to do and why, he will do it. But he might like to take a fire engine with him, or go up a different staircase or something while he does it.

She also doesn't seem to see mess - I've done more tidying up and table wiping and cooking in the last week than I even have - she'll do it if I ask her but she's happy to walk over 4 pairs of wellies strewn in the kitchen to go home whereas I couldn't possibly NOT put them away... I don't know. She is nice in other ways.

I don't think any of the children particularly like her, I don't think they dislike her either, they just don't really understnad the shouting.

We haven't discussed a trial period - I guess a fortnight. Haven't printed out her contract for her yet, I'll do that today.
Ergh.

oh dear, after reading all these excellent comments i feel a bit about having gone She Goes at the first twinge.

I should perhaps explain that I loathe it when I get myself into a shouty, back to the wall situation, which I do far too often, and regard it as a symbol of my incompetence as a mother. Since my nanny, in my mind, is there to be my childcare guru and much better than me, I would respond badly to her having the same faults as me.

[disappears up own psychological a*se]

oh jura my lovely australian is in TURKEY on hols until next week I've just found out (hence the radio silence)...

that's the thing, she isn't a naturally really loud person, she is a naturally quiet person, which is why I'm so surprised at the raised voice. It is a raised and cross voice, not just loud.

And my housekeeper telling me she is concerned is a big thing, she apologised about 100 times for saying anything, she is quite a shy person and she must feel quite strongly

Aurghghghghg

dont' worry choosy, my instincts are exactly the same as yours - if this is her natural approach then it isn't the right one for me

She doesn't sound madly right...

(and I am very shouty, myself, but realise this is Not Good Thing ).

I think the things I would pick up most on was why your housekeeper was concerned and the type of shoutiness.

Firstly, was your previous nanny unnaturally quiet? Our current one is as silent and effective as a ninja: if she were to raise her voice I think I would be scared. Our previous nanny however was quite loud. Not really shouty, just did everything at volume. Children adored her, more or less did what they were told, everyone happy - the shoutiness was just a bit of who she was and how she did things but it didn't really bother anyone.

The flip side of her noisiness was that it was tied in with a lively/ do anything/happy to get messy approach. Interestingly the next door neighbour (who was about a zillion years old and very refined) told us after she left that she thought the nanny shouted at the children in the garden quite a lot and we had a think about it but decided actually the nanny shouted to the children quite a lot.

So in those circumstances I can live with shoutiness (and I can get a bit Segeant Majorish myself when things need to be done and there is dithering going on). And I do think it takes a bit of time for things to "bed down" and get used to each other's ways (although I also think people's essential personalities and MO's don't really change).

But why does your housekeeper have concerns? Just because of the noise (aka my genteel neighbour) or because of the content? If it was the content, then I would start to have concerns (although the stair thing in itself would not faze me - I do think there is often a small/benign power struggle that goes on in the early stages between older children and new nannies (think early days of Sound of Music!) which is fairly inevitable.

FWIW I think it is really hard moving on from a very good nanny to a new one and everything seems a bit different.

Get rid of her, and fast!

I had a nanny on a trial period who was like this and it totally crushed the children. I put up with it for 2 weeks and then told her it wasn;t working out.

I think if you talk to her about it, she will calm it down while you are around, but still be 'loud' when you are not.

I think shoutiness is an inate quality and therefore not easily changed.

She will find a nice shouty family to work for where it will seem normal and okay to be that way.

You will find someone with a calmer, persuasive style.

Horses for courses and all that

Funnily enough PPH it was my housekeeper who warned me about a nanny we had (not the one I'm recommending to you obviously...). She has 4 children of her own and I trust her judgment 100% when it comes to my children (who adore her and throw their arms around her every morning). She told me that when I wasn't around the nanny was really aggressive towards the children (in a hissy threatening way). Obviously this behaviour was inappropriate but it was even worse because my dses were at this stage 1.6 and 6 months old.

We got rid of her. Best thing we ever did. I'm not saying your nanny will turn into Miss Hissy but it sounds like you value your housekeeper's views so listen to her and also go with your instinct.

Oi Peahead, can't believe this is you. I never thought I'd be offer you nanny advice.

I think some of the comments here are a bit harsh. Nannies are employees and they can expect some level of training. I think Nick is right that this is probably a trait that was learned in the nursery. Picture if nanny is used to rounding up fifteen three year olds to come to lunch and one decides they are going via some other route. That would be a safety issue. So, she is probably applying what she learned there to your group of 4. Whereas your kids don't go to nursery so this approach probably has them a bit shocked at the new style of nannying.

I'm not saying you should put up with the Sergeant Major approach if you don't like it -- and obvioulsy you don't. I am saying that she probably deserves a gentle hand of guidance and second (and probably third) chance. After all, does she know you are not happy? As a nanny employer, I would be far more interested in her willingness to adapt to my requests than I would in her instinctive know-how upon arrival.

So, I would:

1- Intall weekly review pronto. Make it fun. Take her to dinner. Ask her how she feels about the job. Ask her how the kids are taking to her when you are not around. Tell her your observations and of course also give her praise where it is due.

2- TRIAL PERIOD IS ESSENTIAL. Put a probationary perion into your contract - suggest 3 months or so. That way you don't have to rush into a decision in the next few days. But, you are still covered to let her go on short notice if she is still not performing up to your standards in a month or two. MAke the notice in probationary period say one week. You don't not want to have to make her redundant (as you won't be able to hire another one) or fire her (that is never fun).

Assuming you know what nursery she worked at, can you find out what the work environment is like there, hence making a good guess at whether she was trained to act like this or if this is just the way she is.

Yes, it is the fact that my HK has spoken to me about it that really has set me off I think. She really isn't someone to say anything like that without real concerns, she always sees the best in people, doesn't want to butt in etc etc

Aurgh

So this other nanny you have for me?!

eleusis you are right.

I'll have a review with her this evening. I'll do a contract witha prob period - perfect, thanks for the suggestion. And I'll gently tell her she can relax a bit and have fun with the children - that it isn't such a regimented approach here - an hope htat works.

But she needs to be LESS relaxed with tidying up and doing the kids washing and things (which I've just learnt my poor HK has been doing all week - and she has quite enough to do without all the kids stuff on top)

thanks

just wondering - is that the reason your hk is fed up with her rather than the shoutiness?

She's great PPH. Kind, children love her, she can cook, she's very tidy. Can be strict when necessary. She is a stickler for manners. She used to work for us part time when my dses were teeny and she looked after older boys (5 and 3) the rest of the time. I saw her with her other charges on numerous occasions and she was great with them.

Do you have a dog? She adores dogs....

Our nanny starts next Monday and I am planning on saying to her that we have a "permissive household", ie. to let ds do what he wants unless there is a good reason not to which is another way of saying choose your battles carefully. Perhaps she has the wrong idea about what people want from a nanny. Definitely worth at least speaking to her about it and, if necessary, extending the trial period to a month? But if she carried on anyway, I'd ditch her...