Why do we have kids if we can't look after them ourselves?

[tothepoint88]

I offered a view on a couple of threads that is perhaps different from most of the mums on this website. I apologise for hijacking the two threads that I did and if either of the authors of the two threads were hurt or upset by my view then I unreservedly apologise as I should not have made those points on your threads. However, I do not apologise for my view and I do take exception to the responses that I got from people who were not the originators of the threads.
There seems to be some idea on here that one is not allowed to question the idea that having others look after your children while you go out to work is OK and perfect sense. It seems that we all have to abide by the belief that not looking after your kids and going out to work is OK. Well I'm sorry, there are people out here who might wish to challenge that view. OK, if you want to go out to work and leave the kids in childcare OK, but don't blindly believe that there aren't people out there who might think that it is not OK and perhaps the selfishness that seems to have crept into motherhood in the last 20/30 years has no effect. Not everybody believes that it is possible to balance a career and bringing up children. The idea that somebody else can do a better job than the mum or dad is frankly odd.

yeah I worked hard to make sure we kept our house those 2yrs I had to go and work nights.

exH worked 7 day weeks as well, it finished off our marriage, fucked up my sleep (and mental health) the former of which is still affected 3yrs on, but hey we didn't use childcare so that's great hey

I really don't get this urge to come on to talkboards and crow "I'm a considerably better parent than yaaaaaaaaaow"

It just gets other people's backs up. It doesn't change anyone else's mind. Why do it?

[baffled]

not every mum is cut out to be a sahm are they? spending 24/7 with your kids is a hard, mentally draining job and i'm sure there are plenty of kids that are far better off cause their parents go out to work - the parents are happier and more relaxed when they do actually spend time with their kids. how would that be worse than having a stressed, distracted parent staying at home with them all day every day? especially when the parent is just getting frustrated with the kid(s) cause (s)he is trying to do stuff that could be done in 1/2 the time if the kid(s) were in childcare.

FFS.

I am not talking about going without that extra holiday and running a second car.

I am talking about paying the bills. Are you seriously suggesting that my children would be better off if I never worked but they were hungry and cold?

How many studies/reports tell us the damage done to children growing up in poverty?

It is a middle class debate. If your OH is a security guard and you work in a launderette you both have to work to pay the bills.

The rules on WTC credit have been changed so couple have to work more hours to qualify.

We just get by. Thats it. Its fine,its how life has turned out for us. Now I am supposed to feel guilty for having a job.

I go to work as I enjoy it - I would rather be there and pay someone else to look after my child, than be stuck at home playing, cooking, going to the library, museum, cafe etc.

Satisfied now?

I appreciate that lots of families who have decided that one parent should stay at home have to really work hard at making ends meet. And I take my hats off to them. What I can't cope with are those "going without" 3rd holiday in a year/ home extension/designer clothes etc and then criticising others for working. Only you guys on here know exactly which camp you fall in to, but many of the smug, judgey crew I've come across in real life aren't doing without very much at all - so easy to criticise others in that situation.

Kew how selfish of you to choose your house over your child! You know your trouble dont you? You just dont appreciate him. Some mothers hey?

Lilololmanchester sorry can I clarify are you suggesting that staying at home to care for children while husband supports financially is akin to prostitution?

I'm not really cut out for SAHM tbh, I need something to occupying my mind. Thank god I've suddenly discovered I'm half decent at Publisher PPpoint and have taken over the church newsletter, and am doing other bits for the church (as a volunteer).

Gives me something else to focus on and play at being a grown up.

Question for the OP - why do you say "the selfishness that seems to have crept into motherhood" - why is it only the mothers being selfish by going to work, and not the fathers?

Was just trying to make an as absurd and offensive a statement as the OP, Trebuchet. If people choose to smugly judge others, others can judge back.

I work because I produce half the family income.

I work because I worked hard to go to university and then obtain my professional qualification.

I work because I enjoy it.

My children have been or currently are cared for in a nursery setting.

They (have) seem(ed) to enjoy that.

It hasn't turned them into mad axe wielding maniacs.

Why is that a problem?

We both have to work because we work for the Public Sector and earn shit wages. But, hey, I wear my crap mother badge with pride.

OK well done both absurd and offensive.

OP/Pastaplease - you are entitled to your opinion. But please know that it doesn't make you a better/worse mother, nor does it make your dc any better/worse. :)

I think breastfeeding is a fabulous start in life and I chose to do it for a year (alongside working !). That doesn't make me a better/worse mother than someone who chose to FF. Not at all. It also doesn't make DS any better/worse.

There are far more factors to consider in motherhood/parenthood. Whether or not you SAHM/bf...etc, is just a very, tiny part of that. As a mother, you will know this :)

Why do some mothers think they know it all and want to tell others what to do? I'm sure that we could all go to OP home and criticise with the greatest of ease. Good parenting is about a lot more than being there all the time.

Well said piscesmoon

My daughter's an only child and loves being at the childminder's playing with the other children. Obviously I should not only give up work, but also provide several siblings for her to play with. Maybe I should also fret about her diet more, and get rid of the plastic toys (can't be good for her). Sod it, I'll just nip off back to the 1950's and have done

And I guess the five years at university, paid for by the wonderful British tax payers, when training for my job don't really count for anything either...

That's what I was trying to say, piscesmoon. Well stated!

Five years? You're planning an only child then, or twins? Seven years out if you have 2 kids with 2 years between them... 16 years maybe, like my mum? What kind of wage will you go back to work on after a break like that? My mum left work being showered with job offers and salary rises... she returned practically begging for a job at 2 rungs below what she'd left, with the electricity being cut off and bailiffs at the door (they were very nice actually). What if your dh becomes ill, what if he becomes so ill that he will probably never work consistently again, like my dh? What if the roof falls in? What if you husband signs a loan agreement backed by the house, with a load of crooks, like my Dad did?

The fact is, when you are looking at a person who works full-time with a small child, you do not know them or their life, and the reality is that few of us have that many choices, or as many as we thought we would have, early on.

Well said StarExpat-you can do attachment parenting and still be a lousy mother.

Gosh-I'm not used to people agreeing with me!

So OP you must really hate me, I am on ML with no2 and still send dd1 to nursery even though I am capable AND at home. I do it because she gets to have more fun, play with friends and it gives me a break. So shoot me. [hhmm]

The basic answer as to why people have children is biological imperative.

Speaking personally, I love DD very much but I genuinely think if I had to stay at home with her all the time until she was 5 on my own, I might end up having some kind of breakdown. On balance, I don't think that would be good for me, her or her father. Ergo, I will probably do some kind of work and use the best childcare I can get.

I do sometimes see people who don't seem to want to spend much time with their children or really enjoy their children and I find it a bit perplexing. However, like other people's marriages, you never really see the whole picture and provided there is clearly not an abuse/neglect situation, it is neither mine nor anyone else's business.

Women bare children and women are meant to nurture children. Women were once the great civilising force in society. We taught our children to eat with a knife and fork, we campaigned for equal rights so that our daughters would know a life free of fear, now in our civilised society many children lack basic skills and fear stalks the streets again.

Whilst we women should congratulate ourselves for having achieved choice, we should also concede that for many of us, the time for choice has been replaced by economic necessity.

The last government coerced women back into the workplace. A bunch of hard line female MPs with a feminist agenda to get women back into work at any cost, have blinded women to the fact that they should where possible retain their choice. Women seem to have been won over to the mantra that work defines who we are.
Biologically, anthropologically and historically, it is childbirth and child rearing that has defined who we are. I find it strange that women are so militant about breast feeding but happy to leave child care to the paid help. Can you imagine scathing comments from mothers if you asked where you could find a wet nurse.

Incidentally I work part-time from home, I am a feminist and I have two Home Ed kids. It is possible to raise your children without the need to defer responsibility to others. It?s wrong though to attack women who choose to make huge sacrifices to raise their own children and not work. Hats off!

If our forebears had not placed child rearing above all else, we might still be living in caves.