Why do we have kids if we can't look after them ourselves?

[tothepoint88]

I offered a view on a couple of threads that is perhaps different from most of the mums on this website. I apologise for hijacking the two threads that I did and if either of the authors of the two threads were hurt or upset by my view then I unreservedly apologise as I should not have made those points on your threads. However, I do not apologise for my view and I do take exception to the responses that I got from people who were not the originators of the threads.
There seems to be some idea on here that one is not allowed to question the idea that having others look after your children while you go out to work is OK and perfect sense. It seems that we all have to abide by the belief that not looking after your kids and going out to work is OK. Well I'm sorry, there are people out here who might wish to challenge that view. OK, if you want to go out to work and leave the kids in childcare OK, but don't blindly believe that there aren't people out there who might think that it is not OK and perhaps the selfishness that seems to have crept into motherhood in the last 20/30 years has no effect. Not everybody believes that it is possible to balance a career and bringing up children. The idea that somebody else can do a better job than the mum or dad is frankly odd.

Only read the OP. Sorry.

People out there are entitled to their opinion of course. And I am entitled to mine - that they are wrong.

I don't think people should even try to justify their lives. Are the children safe, cared for and loved? That'll do.

PSML at the idea of working mothers as something that has crept into motherhood in the last 20 or 30 years. Seriously, my dcs were studying Victorian women in junior school; they knew more than this when they were 8. What on earth was the state of British education 10 or 20 years when the OP was educated?

Underpaidandoverworked - tis true :)

Tanith - that's awful but thing is it's true. I've neve had neglectful employers (tho a few dappy ones lol) but obviously they do exsist

some parents know they don't have the patience to look after children 24/7 and have help

others don't admit they need help and are abusive parents :(

What is relatively new is mothers not going out to work. Afaik it is a post-war construct. Pre-war, wealthy mothers ran houses with loads of staff, which added to their social duties amounted to an occupation, and working class women (most of them) worked. Always had to.

Post-war, when domestic staff became hard to find due to full employment and new and exciting ways to earn a living, the previously staffed women found themselves having to do more for themselves, aided by new labour-saving appliances, whilst not suffering the stigma of "having" to go out to work which was seen as proof that one's husband was not making enough to feed the family. Not working outside the home was seen as a status symbol- proof that your man earned enough for the woman not to need to be employed.

At the same time there was a push for women who had been working and keeping the country going through the war to "go back" to the domestic sphere in order to leave the jobs for the returning men, even though few of them ever were solely in the domestic sphere in the first place. Social pressures led women to feel that they "ought" to be at home because that's what everyone was telling them.

I imagine that there was also in Britain a kind of post-war idealism about how children should be brought up, attempting to counter the very real neglect suffered by many during rationing and evacuation.

It's all such a huge combination of factors, but the basic thing is that the stay at home mother wasn't really "invented" until the late 40s/early 50s.

I have decided after reading 'Tothepoint88' view, I will now hand my notice in at work and get myself on benefits and apply for a council house.

FFS - what world are you living in? I don't currently claim anything, but I have to work. If I didn't my son and I would not have a house, be able to eat or put clothes on our back. My Ex-H was a total arse, who couldn't look after himself let alng provide for a wife and child, so I do the providing. My son spends 1 hour in a morning at child minders, playing with all his friends (just like at school) and he goes there for 2 hours, 3 afternoons a week. Other than that, he is with me. I don't go out socially - everything I do is about my son.

I would much prefer it to be this way, than live on some dossy council estate on benefits or have to rely on a man.

No I think a bit further back than that actually!

Coming to this late, I would have been grateful if the OP had bothered to paragraph.

You know what, tothepoint88 you said you were sorry for your point of view.

Graciously accepted. :o

You tosser.

Interesting how tothepoint88 has so few posts -- all very recent and all on the same subject.

Wait... listen... what's the tapping sound... Oh, it's coming from under the bridge.

TrollThePoint88

MUM2BLESS Fri 22-Oct-10 21:02:11
This is really getting a lot of interest and also really generating fiery responses!!!!

It would be interesting to know how many of us choose childminding so we could do both.

===============================================

I think it is very hard these days for alot of Mums and Dads going out to work - they have to because who is going to pay the bills, mortgage/rent etc and today I hear the government is forcing people back to work as soon as their child is 7.

I have no parents nearby and am a Registered Childminder,looking after my own 8 year old and another 8 yr old in the same class at his school. I am able to drop both boys at school and pick them up and have them all day in the holidays.

I agree with StarExpat, especially the last point, I would never be able to earn enough to pay for childcare as we are losing TCs and CB in the next few years and apparently DH earns too much on paper [hangry]

just to say working is all about avaricious needs for money and consumer goods is wrong.also abou self efficacy and autonomy

pior to pg i was solvent,had mortgage.financially independent.worked ft career i enjoyed i shouldn't have to give that up because i had dc.

i work because i want to
i was raised to be financially independent.
i value my career and gain affirmation from doing it. it makes me feel competent and i enjoy it

i don't need to be a mummy martyr.
no holidays
enforced frugality
blah blah

nah i will pass thanks

Takes courage to say what you said. Good for you, and I agree with you. (ducks to avoid passing bullets).

highlystrung assuming you mean the OP, can't see much courage in anonymously posting on an internet forum and then not returning to the thread...

I really glad for the OP and others who support her that they can either afford to live on their partners' income or can stay at home and not work because they are claiming benefits. Everyone else in the middle generally goes to work because they need the money.

I suppose I could have packed my job in but then where the hell would we live. I'd have had to declare myself bankrupt as well to clear bank loans that I wouldn't have been able to pay. and then somehow find somewhere to live. What a great start for DS that would have been.

I probably would be a really shit mum as well if I had to do baby/toddler things 24/7. I'm a better mum when I'm with DS for going out to work.

Sod off and enjoy your smug little life.

these threads are mn perennial

ffs do what you feel is right for you and mind your own business about other peoples lives.. i childmind so work and at home for my dd.. not the best pay but good for her...

please ladies.. old old debate.. grow up...live and let fellow sister live

I have no choice. I would love to stay at home all day, and even be with my kids when they weren't at school. However, as a single father I regard an important part of loving and caring for my children to be making sure they have clothes, food, a roof over their heads, a heated house, hot water to wash with and all those other inconveniences we are expected to pay for.

Irrespective of all the historical information others have brought up (and much respect to those whose knowledge far exceeds mine) I think the OP should be aware of the real world we live in today.

DIOM - as a single father you make a good point; all the blah blah blah about abandonment yadda yadda yawn yawn children need their mothers at home yak yak yak - how awful to completely dismiss fathers

well said dads..

As a mum whose dh has been abroad since JULY its bloody hard coping with the kids on my own.. kids need dads.. mums need dads!!!

Let's face it, going to work ,getting paid, doing something enjoyable that you're good at, getting an hour off for lunch is much more fun than being stuck at home, bored, an unpaid housemaid, having to be on call to wipe a face or arse, preparing meals that are spread all over the kitchen, picking up ,cleaning, not being able to to a simple task without interuption, being nagged 12 hrs out of the day, shouted at, having your belongings and house trashed I could go on....but they are my children, my responsibility, I knew that when I stopped taking the pill. How much do you have to pay someone these days to love your child?

so chickincharge, what about those who have to work, what about those who like to work, what about the role fathers have, what about those who are too ill? Staying at home works for you, but not for every family unit

You seem to be saying that your children are your responsibility - does you husband or partner not have any?

chickincharge dont understand your post.. i am a cm and work full time.. I love my kids... the parents who use my services to look sfter their kids... love their kids too.. we just all have to pay the bills.. not go on 3 holidays a year but pay the bills

would it be kinder to our children to not pay those bills, get evicted, live in poverty, no heating, lighting, toys e.t.c..

if you can afford to stay at home with your kids then lucky you... my dh has had to go to Australia for work since July.. he loves us but hes a respopnsible parent and provider.. as I am..

comments like yours are at worst hurtful and smug ..at best careless and crass..

Chick, are you the OP in disguise??????

Chill out!

I'm a cm and mum to ds 5yrs, love all my mindees to bits, love what I do (most of the time ). We provide a valuable service to parents out there who need to work and we make sure their children are cared for and nurtured in the same way their parents would!

Personally, I'm getting a bit p**sed off at the pasting we have been getting on here recently.. My home looks like a nursery, I don't have time to do the paperwork, my son sometimes gets hacked off because I spend more time with mindees than with him - oh, and my DH is in hospital with pneumonia!

But hey ho, just have to get on with it!!!!!

use ft nursery because i want to,because i can afford it

no further explanation needed