Why do we have kids if we can't look after them ourselves?

[tothepoint88]

I offered a view on a couple of threads that is perhaps different from most of the mums on this website. I apologise for hijacking the two threads that I did and if either of the authors of the two threads were hurt or upset by my view then I unreservedly apologise as I should not have made those points on your threads. However, I do not apologise for my view and I do take exception to the responses that I got from people who were not the originators of the threads.
There seems to be some idea on here that one is not allowed to question the idea that having others look after your children while you go out to work is OK and perfect sense. It seems that we all have to abide by the belief that not looking after your kids and going out to work is OK. Well I'm sorry, there are people out here who might wish to challenge that view. OK, if you want to go out to work and leave the kids in childcare OK, but don't blindly believe that there aren't people out there who might think that it is not OK and perhaps the selfishness that seems to have crept into motherhood in the last 20/30 years has no effect. Not everybody believes that it is possible to balance a career and bringing up children. The idea that somebody else can do a better job than the mum or dad is frankly odd.

pasta - wrg to your friend and the creche on holiday - I bet the crèche isn't all day. I bet the parents don't see much of each other because they're both working.

I think using a creche facility so they can spend some time as a couple as well as with their children is a great idea.

I'm perfectly well aware that the comments section of the Daily Mail website is populated by people who would like to burn me for working full time.

I just don't give a shit what they think.

pastaplease Fri 22-Oct-10 20:58:31
No, I don't think that breakfast clubs etc are great. I haven't said that.

you did say only for the 1st 5years so unless you then expect every1 after not working the 1st 5 years to then get a job working 9.15/30 till 2.30/45 then you and everyone else would need to use the sort of clubs

DS1 keeps begging me to let him go to the breakfast club as his 2 best friends go and love it.

No way

a) I can't afford it (as I'm not currently working)

b) there's no way in hell he'll be able to get up and to school for 8am

c) he'll stuff up our morning routine we currently have where he walks DS2 up the road )

I had nannies. They weren't replacements for my mother and I knew that. I turned out just fine. I am both a mother and a career person. I contribute equally (financially) to the household because that is what works in my relationship. Unlike you OP, I don't sit there judging other parents for the parenting and relationship choices they have made.

The line people take when arguing this is "you can always go back to work once they're at school". If you really believe this, why, all of a sudden don't they need you when they go to school? I have yet to find a mother wh can comfortably fit in a job around school time, and to be honest, as a part time working mother I feel far worse having my DD in childcare now she's started school as I think she needs me more. I'm desperately trying to juggle so I can do more drop offs / pick ups.

I went back to work 3 days a week when ds was 1 just so i could afford to send him to nursery. we can get by with me not working but I just think nursery is such a good environment for a child that i'm prepared to go to work in a job that i don't really like just to be able to afford to give ds that experience.

they learn so much and make so many friends. ds is now nearly 3 and has just started learning spanish at nursery which i think is fantastic!

I find it difficult to comprehend why parents don't want their children in some form of structured childcare for at least one day a week. Why limit them?

These debates always make me laugh [albeit in a hollow tone].

Like we have a choice!

Its not about luxuries, its about survival. Its a middle class debate, every woman for generations of my family have worked.

Not because they were career women. They had to suppliment the father's income in order to feed their children.

The difference then was that the children were looked after by aunts and older sisters, nans and great nans.

Now they go to CMs and nurseries because the way families live has changed.

What a joke, choosing not to work! I can imagine the pasting I would get on MNs if I said 'in order to be a real mother I have chosen to allow you all to pay for me to stay at home and care for my own children'

Some of us will never be in the position to have one full time stay at home parent unless they are forced to by illness or unemployment.

So pasta how do you afford to stay at home and raise your children?

Actually, don't bother answering it, your talking shit and I can't bother getting into a discussion with you about it.

My childminder has a lot more experience as a parent than me, I'm not saying she does a better job, but she is more sociable than me, doesn't feel she should be doing housework all the time like I would, and she can get my child to eat a much more varied diet than I can at home. She complements me basically.

I work part-time BTW.

I work (part-time), and strictly speaking I don't have to, because we could survive OK on DP's salary, we could have a cheaper house, spend less etc. and it would be fine. So I don't have the excuse that I have to work for financial reasons. I work because -

I love work and it is an important part of who I am.

It's important to me to have my own income.

I need a break from constant childcare. Even though I love having DC and am close to them, we get no help from family, DP works a lot and can't take much time off. I'm self-employed and tbh work helps keep me sane because it's my time alone and my headspace and time to focus on something else.

I also believe it is good for a mother to pursue her career / non-domestic interests in order to set a good example to her DC and show that women can do whatever they like in life. I don't want my DC (of both sexes) growing up thinking a woman's place is in the home and she automatically does all the childcare.

I am confident in the nursery we use and the loving and caring staff, and it's part-time so I feel it's not a case of hardly ever seeing my DC.

Is this all selfish, the "selfishness that has crept into motherhood"? Kind of. I work because of my needs and my beliefs. But then if you think motherhood should mean being in the home, you're also imposing your beliefs on your DC. And there is nothing innate about being a parent that makes you a good parent.

Plus, men are allowed to be selfish in that way I presume? As ever?

"I can imagine the pasting I would get on MNs if I said 'in order to be a real mother I have chosen to allow you all to pay for me to stay at home and care for my own children'"

yep - you would - that's why us single mum's can never win. On the one hand we should be out at work paying our own way from the minute we become single parents, on the other hand we should be at home with our darling off spring (at least) until they start school.

isn't taking money from rich men also known as the oldest profession in the book???

Yes I'm with MrsDeVEre (link arms)

Have friedns who work, stay at home, have nannies, used childminders and nurseries oh and one who works from home. You be hard pushed to tell which is which from the chldren when they play together.

My mother worked when I was young as did early generations becuase we were honest poor (since doomsday book) guv'nor and had to earn a crust.

You will always get lacksadaisical parents who could do better for their children ranging from mild neglect to outright abuse but I don't think its teh preserve of working paretns - I know a few who's childrens lives would be infinitely improved if their parents went out to work and left them with competent carers.

Sorry, had to feed the rabbits and have lost track a bit!

OK, so not going to nursery limits a child. How? I, like most people, take DD to lots of playgroups and a variety of activities. She has a better social life than I do, that's for sure! BTW, there are pre-school Spanish classes in my town, so that isn't exclusive for children in nurseries.

Middle class? I'm from a working class background. My mother stopped working to look after my sister and I, until we were both in school. OK, cue images of Hovis adverts, but we had very little but I'm very grateful to my parents for choosing my sister and I over working. We have fantastic memories of our childhood. We did exciting things on a shoe-string budget!

How do I afford it? DP works. He's freelance and the income is irregular. We budget (hard) and make the most of what we have. It's tough at times (very!), but I would not want to leave my DD at such a crucial time in her childhood, to do paid work. We work hard to make sure it works.

Some of us don't have a choice other than to go out to work!

I choose not being homeless over not working - it works well for us.

Good for you.

That was to pasta.

"We work hard to make sure it works." - aha! I see, I'm not trying hard enough.

I'm not being smu, Georgimama, I was asked the question.

Sorry, I meant smug!

I took my DS's to playgroups - they were all (thankfully) confident toddlers and loved it.

When they started their free LEA nursery places they positively blossomed. DS3 has only just started but they offer so much more than I could ever give.

My mum stayed at home (we could just about afford it then) and we had a great childhood lots of lovely memories (lots of hill walking and walking along the cliffs) ........she started working when I was around 9yrs old and I hated it.

Ironically thought looking back the fab memories I have of very young childhood must all have happened at the weekend or during holidays - my older brother (who was school age) was also there. So really she could have been working and I've have the same memories.

pasta some people's dp's don't earn enough to even live on a tight budget.

For some it's just impossible and both need to work. That's a fact.

Some choose to work (for a variety of valid reasons)

And some choose to stay home (for a variety of valid reasons)

And some have to stay home because earnings would be less than childcare and then life would be unaffordable.

Both my grandmothers worked. My mother worked. I work. I spent far more time at home with DS in the last year than my mother was able to spend when she had my brother in the early 1980s.

We can't afford to not have my income.

And frankly, there are some mothers (my lazy idiot SIL) whose children would probably benefit from a nursery where they'd at least have some consistency and carers who have a basic understanding of child development/psychology. Giving birth doesn't automatically make you a good parent.