The old partners on wards debate - a question

[Thurlow]

If your hospital allowed partners to stay on the postnatal wards overnight, how many women do you think actually made use of this?

I was debating this with DP the other day. Personally I hate the idea of partners being allowed overnight (and will pay for a private room on the unlikely chance one is available, as will be having an ELCS and so will be in for a few nights) but that's what is allowed now so I'll just have to put up with it.

DP wasn't keen on staying overnight and I can't say I'd blame him. I'd rather at least one of us got some sleep and was functioning ok the next day. Plus DC1 will presumably be returning from the grandparents after a day or so and will need taking to school and having some normality in her life, and I don't want both of us to be zombies. He would only stay overnight if my ELCS was bumped to very late in the day.

I was thinking that surely a lot of women will already have DC and so their partner won't be able to stay every night for a few nights. Or did most women have partners there all the time?

I am giving birth in December and I have resolved not to tolerate any strange men on the ward if I have the misfortune to stay on a ward overnight. I would not be expected to tolerate a mixed ward in any other circumstances. As I have said on here before, I will pay the Muslim card if necessary. Luckily my hospital is all private rooms and I am having ELCS so it's supremely unlikely, but I cannot believe there are women who are expected - or even willing - to tolerate conditions like this.

Wards are hellish enough without holding 3 times as many people as they are designed to. It's healthcare in the sixth richest country in the world, not a sub-Saharan field hospital FFS. Absolutely unacceptable.

My partner was sent home the first night with our first despite me being in a terrible state post EMCS and our baby only just back from intensive care, and in a private room. He and I were both devastated. Second time he could stay - if he hadn't I don't know how I'd have managed with the complications for me and baby that time.

I would not be expected to tolerate a mixed ward in any other circumstances... Wards are hellish enough without holding 3 times as many people as they are designed to.

Yes, this is personally my concern too - it's noisy and squashed enough in those bays without lots of other people in the room as well. I'm sure (naively) that most of the men will only be interested in their baby, but it still means 12 adults and 6 babies on a ward, for example, that's not designed to accommodate that many people.

Interesting that not too many people appear to have that much practical experience of it?

Partners are there to support their baby and dp, not to disturb you or make you feel uncomfortable. And its not selfish or rude to need someone there. Its selfish for you to think its unreasonable.

I've had 2 DC in two different hospitals, and neither let partners stay, thank god! It was bad enough in a bay with three other women, all on their phones, watching different tv, shuffling to the loo and crying babies all night without having extra people on the ward as well!

Having DC3 in December, hopefully this one will be born early enough in the day to not need to stay, but if I do,not a chance would DP be staying and I won't be happy if other partners are too. I think if you want them to stay, you should opt for a private room and if there aren't any, tough.

OldFarticus - completely agree. 4/6 bed wards are bad enough with 4/6 women and their babies - add partners into that mix and it will be hell. I don't blame you for playing the Muslim card, I would too (if I was Muslim that is!). I wouldn't want to be on a mixed ward after an op - why on earth would I want the same on a postnatal ward? Awful rule imo.

Close your curtain

It's not selfish to think either way, this is a very personal thing.

I agree its not nice being on a ward with other people. But more to the point is that mothers are supported by partners especially the first night/nights.

I think that's probably where there is such a strong dividing line, lauren - for me, if I am in hospital then I am a patient who wants to try and recover from surgery or a traumatic birth, and I hold that (rest, reasonable quiet) higher.

However it is sadly moot point for me as the ward now takes partners...

It's ok for partners to stay if you are in a private room after the birth.
If you're on a ward, IME this is because it's either been a CS or a very traumatic birth.
I don't think it's appropriate to have partners etc stay overnight on a ward, for all the reasons missbattleaxe says. I would feel uncomfortable.
I hated being on the ward anyway, so noisy and that was without partners.

Mothers should be supported by the staff.

Partners staying is a terrible idea for many reasons. Not least because it means that women inabisive relationships don't even get one night in a safe setting.

I would not tolerate being on a ward with strange men. I wouldn't if I'd been through any other gynae procedure; nor would it be allowed. Childbirth is no different.

Having to explain why there is no place for strange healthy men milling around a female centric ward is ludicrous.
They are full of women recovering from surgery, in vulnerable states, being expected to answer questions such as 'have you opened your bowels?' 'Can I see your stitches?' and trying to establish breastfeeding - all of which are hard enough without Paul and Dave from down the road a foot away either side.

Can you imagine any other ward where this would be tolerated?
Having catheters removed, stitches checked, nipples looked at, all whilst some random man's back pushes through the curtain from next door? No thanks.

They don't allow partners in my health trust and if they ever did I would campaign STRONGLY against it.

I'll certainly be having a very serious conversation with the midwife about it, Well.

I can understand why women feel they need their partner there; I spent 5 nights on the ward last time and it is very hard, after major surgery, to care for a newborn.

But the answer is more staff, not more people (male or female, partners or family members) crammed into an already small and overheated bay.

I'd be really upset if someone kicked up a fuss and demanded DH left the ward if it's a ward where partners were allowed to stay. Just as upset as they'd be to have a man on the ward, I'd imagine. I don't think I even saw another man on the ward, except maybe heading to or from the toilet, everyone just stays in their bays don't they? I knew they were there because I heard them chatting (not at night, at night it was the woman next to me snoring like a foghorn then talking on the phone. That's much more disruptive than a man being behind a curtain.)

Everyone I know who has it available has taken advantage of it, with the notable exception being as you say, those who already have children at home. My DH had to do everything for me in hospital (birth injuries)

Personally I think bedtime on wards are for patients and staff only. On no other ward would it be appropriate for a visitor to remain at your bedside through the night so why is it appropriate here?

It's all well and good saying new dad's shouldn't be sent away from their newborns but the primary concern on post natal is the recovery of the new mother and frankly that outweighs the needs of the new dad.

The recovery of the new mother is the responsibility of the staff and if they aren't able to provide it then that is what needs addressing, rather than changing the guidelines for additional visitors.

If women feel the need to have the dad at their bedside 24 hours a day then they should book and pay for a private room.

I'd be really upset if someone kicked up a fuss and demanded DH left the ward

I'd be really upset having to answer questions about my vagina and bowels and have my catheter removed with your DH 2 feet away.

Sorry Bendy but as a patient I would expect to take priority over your husband and it would be tough. Of course, space permitting there should be space for each type of arrangement, but the NHS being what it is (especially post-natal) let's not all hold our breaths. Vulnerable women should be the first, second and only priority for post natal wards. This partner support bonding bollocks is a figleaf to cover woefully inadequate staffing.

I don't have any issue with men staying on private rooms, although personally I would prefer DH to go home and do something useful and/or get some sleep. If I had any other kind of abdominal surgery the hospital would - quite fairly and reasonably - tell him to sling his hook. It's just another example of post-natal women being somehow "different" to other patients. (And for "different", read "less deserving of help, support, pain relief and adequate staffing").

You can't demand that men leave the ward. For all those who 'wouldn't tolerate it' what are you actually expecting them to do? It's not like a 'normal' ward where overnight things are going to be more quiet, no one tells people in A&E that there can't be mixed visitors. And why is overnight different to during the day where you have loads of people milling about including children who are much more likely to tug at curtains and peep round them.

Vulnerable women should be the first, second and only priority for post natal wards.

Totally agree.

For all those who 'wouldn't tolerate it' what are you actually expecting them to do?

Go home. Like they would if their wife/partner was on ANY OTHER WARD.

It's just another example of post-natal women being somehow "different" to other patients. (And for "different", read "less deserving of help, support, pain relief and adequate staffing").

Completely agree.

If you've had a cs, it's really not that much different from any other surgical ward.

I preferred the visiting hours when I had DC1 - 9am-12, 3pm-8. Meant there were periods where I too felt I could have a break.

When this has come up before people have agreed they'd love their partner to stay, but not the partners of other women, which is what you'd expect really. Plus concerns about domestic violence and a lack of privacy. I remember dashing to the sink to be sick on the postnatal ward and being told by a nurse I should have covered up better because there were men around but that was daytime.

There was no offer for DH to stay overnight when DS was born but I'd have loved him there.

You'll still have to answer questions during the day with loads of people milling around and why should women go without any support when recovering from birth? The idea that they should get support from staff is academic, it's just not there. Or its not in my hospital at least.

On any other ward, patients don't have to care for a newborn baby straight after they come out of surgery. Babies don't know/care if it is night or day. Mums are just as likely to need and want to rest during the day, and you will have to answer personal questions and shuffle to the toilet in daylight hours as well as night. New parents exist in a bubble, the new dad in the next bay won't be looking at you try to breastfeed or whatever, they are probably unaware that you even exist.