The old partners on wards debate - a question

[Thurlow]

If your hospital allowed partners to stay on the postnatal wards overnight, how many women do you think actually made use of this?

I was debating this with DP the other day. Personally I hate the idea of partners being allowed overnight (and will pay for a private room on the unlikely chance one is available, as will be having an ELCS and so will be in for a few nights) but that's what is allowed now so I'll just have to put up with it.

DP wasn't keen on staying overnight and I can't say I'd blame him. I'd rather at least one of us got some sleep and was functioning ok the next day. Plus DC1 will presumably be returning from the grandparents after a day or so and will need taking to school and having some normality in her life, and I don't want both of us to be zombies. He would only stay overnight if my ELCS was bumped to very late in the day.

I was thinking that surely a lot of women will already have DC and so their partner won't be able to stay every night for a few nights. Or did most women have partners there all the time?

[DrWhy]

Thanks!

There was a thread in Sctive last night from a lady on a post natal ward, it sounded like exactly the hell I'm expecting. I realise not everyone wants men or other people's partners around the ward but they are desperately under staffed and frankly do sound like something from a 3td world country. Until that's fixed, which seems unlikely with dear Mr Hunt in charge, allowing partners at least enables women to get to the loo, have a shower, pick up or put down their baby and eat!

[LillianFullStop]

Oh that's great drwhy lucky you! Can they come to mine after?

Hoping you have a straightforward birth so you can go home asap

[DrWhy]

Lillian fortunately I have lovely friends who already have babies/children - one of whom is a breastfeeding peer supporter already and if needed I'd be quite happy to get my boobs out in front of them for advice! Also our post-natal at home midwife care is meant to be quite good, so I basically just want to get out of the ward pronto but it will obviously depend on the birth, my health, babies health etc.

[LillianFullStop]

I'm terrified of the treatment i will get in post natal care too drwhy

i have lowered my expectation all the way down and expecting zero help or being treated rudely.

I wish i qualified for the birth centre so i could get my own post natal room but at the moment I have 2 risk factors that need clearing up (gestational diabetes risk and low lying placenta).

Would you considering hiring an independent post natal midwife or maternity nurse to visit at home? I'm thinking about it myself. Much as I dread being in a ward I do need support as a FTM without family living near me.

I'd be more comfortable fighting to get discharged from the ward as soon as possible if i knew there was someone i can rely on to help me at home, give 1 to 1 experienced advice, etc

[DrWhy]

Sadly speak no, the next nearest hospital is around an hour and a half away in each direction. There was a community led midwife unit about 45 minutes away that I was planning to go to but guess what - it's been closed until September due to... lack of staff!!
Ideally I'd have a home-birth but I'm at somewhat higher risk of PPH and have low blood pressure already so the midwife has basically said she'd really prefer that I was in a setting where they could deal efficiently with major blood loss.

[SpeakNoWords]

The focus should be on campaigning for better post natal care, not to give up and accept substandard care for women! No other type of ward is treated this way, the UK isn't a developing country with inadequate hospitals which needs relatives to help out with patient care. Why is it only post natal women who are expected to put up with substandard care? Mixed sex wards are also being phased out as much as possible in other treatment areas, so it's puzzling to me that they're being introduced in the post natal setting.

Is there no other choice of hospital DrWhy if you know in advance that the post natal ward will be understaffed?

[DrWhy]

The hospital I am going to give birth in has postnatal wards with a ratio of 26 women to 2 nurses and 2 midwives. It is notorious for poor post natal care. My husband will be kicked out at 9pm regardless of the time o give birth. This will be my first baby and I am terrified. I am likely to be exhausted, bleeding and in pain, with a tiny baby that I don't know what to do with on a bay with 5 other women and screaming infants and get no sleep and no help. I'm genuinely more afraid of that ward experience than of the birth right now and would kill for DH to stay with me and help. I've heard so many stories of women not being able to pick up their crying baby or get to the loo. It's all very well being saying that it should be a safe space without men but that only works if there are enough staff to help!
'Back in the day' babies were taken to the nursery and brought back to feed, there were enough staff to do this and help you to the loo. Partners weren't a necessity, unfortunately I think they are now.

[SpeakNoWords]

The other women are patients and need to be on the ward. They are in the same state as you will be, having the same challenges and hurdles to overcome. The partners (usually male) are not patients, are not having treatment and do not need to be present 24/7. It is totally inappropriate to have male strangers present 24/7 on curtained bay wards, when women are vulnerable. If hospitals have private rooms with ensuite facilities then there's no problem with partners staying overnight. But not in bays on a ward. And as previously described on this thread, it would be to the detriment of anyone without a partner able to stay overnight as well.

[penguinshop]

"I honestly think, judging from some posters on here, that even if the nurse to patient ratio was 1:1 it wouldn't make the slightest difference. These women would still be whining that their partners should be allowed to stay, because they're clearly incapable of managing without them for a couple of nights
I find it really sad that some women can be so oblivious to the needs and rights of other women to basic privacy and dignity."
This is unbelievably rude! Having your first baby is terrifying. It doesn't mean you can't cope just because you want support from your partner or from someone more experienced. I find it really sad that you are oblivious to the needs and rights of other women to basic support as new mother!

[penguinshop]

The thought of giving birth to my first baby and not being allowed to have DP stay with me fills me with pure fear.

As a first time mum I have no clue what to do and from what I have heard the midwives don't help or support very much.

I don't understand why having partners stay on the ward is any different to the women on the ward. You're still not going to get much sleep or quiet time to recover regardless.
Do you really object to those women getting some much needed support from their loved ones?
Not everyone is a confident expert!

[Peyia]

I was following this thread in the last few weeks of my pregnancy and it certainly made me mindful of issues I wouldn't have considered before.

First birth was in a MW led unit that ensured every woman had a private room (NHS at its best)

Being a first time mother, I was very nervous so my H stayed. The MW's still cared for me and H was useless but looking back it was nice he was there!!

2nd Birth (yesterday!) was in a MW led unit again and I'm now on a 4 bed ward. I sent H home, mainly because I'm on a ward and someone needs to care for our other child, but mainly because I didn't think it was fair he be on the ward. I think this thread helped me see that.

During the night another lady was brought in (so two of us) and her H has stayed. It's made me feel very very self conscious. The toilets are public and I'm leaking everywhere. Yes he might not care about me but that doesn't stop how I feel. Also I'm struggling with feeding so am getting assistance with this, it doesn't help that I'm tense and next door can hear the MW giving me nipple technique instructions!!

I strongly disagree with partners staying overnight. The MW's are doing their job, might not be amazing at times but it is pretty selfish to encroach on another woman's privacy just so the partner can share the first night. Fair enough if you have a private room but I'm pretty shocked they allowed this man to stay. They came in 4:00 am and he promptly started snoring (and let one rip) I'm not angry at them. They are being as respectful as can be regarding noise levels, they don't know I feel uncomfortable. The hospital policy should change and on that basis I will give feedback.

To all the ladies that had traumatic and difficult births - I'm sorry! I do sympathise. I don't believe PP were dismissing the fact you received inadequate care, just pointing out the fact it's not right to impose visitors (male or female) during the night when women who have just given birth feel at their most vulnerable.

[Alwaysinahurrynow]

Recovery is a room that you move to immediately post section (similar to any other major op). I think for a minimum of around an hour. It's basically meant so you get one on one observation and they can wheel you straight back into theatre if needed. However, the person with you can't leave unless they then scrub up again to come back in again (which is basically effort for the medical staff). My DH ended up leaving last time round to go home and get some food as he hadn't eaten since breakfast and they didn't know how long I would be in recovery for. He then came back a couple of hours later and I had only just arrived on the ward.

You then get moved to the post natal ward once you're ok/they've got a bed.

From friends' experience, how long you get to stay in a delivery room depends on how long you are going to be in the hospital and availability of ward space and labour rooms.

[LillianFullStop]

Is there a room for recovery separate from postnatal wards? or is that the same as letting you stay in the delivery room before wheeling you down to the wards?

[Alwaysinahurrynow]

Now pregnant with no3, I realise a lot of advice I received whilst pregnant could if I'd taken it to heart mean that I would have been totally overwhelmed with guilt after the birth (EMCS, then baby with severe reflux who made me cry with his crying in pain). I'm a pragmatic sort and definitely had the attitude of what will be will be, but I know many mums did suffer with guilt afterwards around the birth as it wasn't the perfect birth they had been expecting.

I think the trick is to focus on what's really important to you, but have a back-up plan in case it doesn't quite work out like that. I actually had a in case of EMCS plan (was the first one my midwife had seen), which covered things like if my baby and I had to be separated, would my husband stay with me or go with the baby.

[Liwwybettykins]

Thanks Alwaysinahurrynow - it's nice to hear some reassuring words on this. I'm feeling kind of swamped by all the literature! Dh is totally oblivious, and happily wants to stay that way tbh! :)

[Alwaysinahurrynow]

livvybettykins - honestly the first few hours are just that the first few hours, to believe that this will be the be-all-and-end-all for bonding is not true, despite the fact that you often hear this with pregnancy. It's incredibly unlikely that you will be split up very quickly after the birth unless there is a medical reason to do that (even post section late at night, we still had to do the necessary time in recovery first.

Not everyone will get to hold their baby immediately for obvious reasons and not everyone will bond with their baby immediately irrespective of the birth, post natal treatment etc, it does not mean that the bonds they form are any less beneficial to both the parents and the child once formed.

[Liwwybettykins]

I understand what you mean MyBreadIsEggy

[Liwwybettykins]

Bruffin I suppose you could describe me as naive, Im trying for my first and just starting out with as much research as possible. I am however a doctor who has worked on postnatal wards and I understand the environment, and from what I've read so far the first few hours mean a lot with bonding. For that reason the idea of not having him around makes me, I think, understandably anxious. I did not mean to offend anyone and perhaps it does make me naive, and for my second maybe I will think that it doesn't matter, however currently I'm leaning towards wanting him there.

[MyBreadIsEggy]

Liwwy While I was pregnant and immediately after the birth, I was horrified by the thought of my DH having to leave me and newborn Dd on the postnatal ward. But now having been there, I totally understand exactly why they aren't allowed to stay.
It is loud on postnatal wards. At my hospital, partners were allowed in at 10am and were sent home at 10pm or something along those lines, so 4 out of the 5 occupied bays on my ward had the new mum, the baby and the dad there for 12 hours. Then there were normal afternoon and evening visiting hours. I think all of us on that ward had at least one set of grandparents visit during one if not both sets of visiting hours. So then there was sometimes 6 adults and the baby around that bed. Then add in all the midwives, HCA's, obstetricians, paediatricians, lactation specialists, cleaners, staff bringing meals round, the bloody irritating bounty lady who won't leave you alone until you agree to a photo milling around and it is loud. I sent my DH home at about 8pm on the night Dd was born, because I was knackered and he could really do with some sleep too....little did I know, the lady in the bed next to me's baby had an issue with his sucking reflex, so was struggling to feed, and she had midwives, and a lactation specialist with her for most of the evening and the night trying to help her poor baby feed. That baby cried a lot. So did his mum. Then so did I, because I'd just got Dd off to sleep....and someone else's baby started to cry and woke her up.
At least when Dd and I were discharged the following lunchtime, she had one well-rested parent to go home to.

[bruffin]

Liwwybettykins
Do you really think that first night makes one iota of difference to how your dh bonds with your baby, you really are being naive. My dh didnt get to spend the first 4 nights with ds and the first night with dd, they are 18 and 20 now and the bonding is just fine.

[Liwwybettykins]

TBH the fact that my partner might be kicked out soon after is the only reason Im considering a home birth... I want him to be able to bond with us both as much as possible that first night.

[LillianFullStop]

bloodyteenagers back then newborns were taken to a nursery to be looked after while the new mother recovered and yes they did stay a lot longer to recuperate. These days you hear stories of people going home after 6 hours. All well and good if you're confident/experienced with breastfeeding and if your stitches are healing well and you know how to look after it.

[DownWithThisSortaThing]

Younggirl
See, I've read a few grim stories about the shit women have had to put up with from other patients partners in wards overnight on MN. It's all well and good saying 'well the bad partners are in the minority of partners that would be staying overnight' but tbh one instance of bad behaviour from a male non patient in a women's ward overnight is one too many.

I was slightly alarmed when DS was presented to me after being cleaned up and had two security tags around his little ankles. If we also had to have a bouncer in the ward for our own protection from men being allowed to stay, I would have crawled out of there with DS as fast as I could.

[YoungGirlGrowingOld]

It's a good idea in principle bloody but not sure how it would work because the staff would constantly be playing musical beds with patients coming and going. Not sure how that would divert staff to those with greatest need/least support.

I have actually been on one of those rotating bays in a mixed ward and tbh I thought it was a huge infection risk. I am surprised it's allowed. They would rotate the beds into different bays but nothing else (like tables or equipment in that bay) was changed or cleaned. That bay's toilets were not cleaned at changeover either so there were potentially a lot more bugs swilling around more people (and the ward closed because of C Diff the week after I left). I find wards generally a bit revolting so it's possibly an overreaction!

All of the issues on this thread could be solved with private rooms and although that is the direction of travel for the NHS (at long bloody last!) I can't see then being universally available to all any time soon. Cynically I suspect post natal will be the poor relation for a while yet.

[PunkrockerGirl]

I honestly think, judging from some posters on here, that even if the nurse to patient ratio was 1:1 it wouldn't make the slightest difference. These women would still be whining that their partners should be allowed to stay, because they're clearly incapable of managing without them for a couple of nights
I find it really sad that some women can be so oblivious to the needs and rights of other women to basic privacy and dignity.