The old partners on wards debate - a question

[Thurlow]

If your hospital allowed partners to stay on the postnatal wards overnight, how many women do you think actually made use of this?

I was debating this with DP the other day. Personally I hate the idea of partners being allowed overnight (and will pay for a private room on the unlikely chance one is available, as will be having an ELCS and so will be in for a few nights) but that's what is allowed now so I'll just have to put up with it.

DP wasn't keen on staying overnight and I can't say I'd blame him. I'd rather at least one of us got some sleep and was functioning ok the next day. Plus DC1 will presumably be returning from the grandparents after a day or so and will need taking to school and having some normality in her life, and I don't want both of us to be zombies. He would only stay overnight if my ELCS was bumped to very late in the day.

I was thinking that surely a lot of women will already have DC and so their partner won't be able to stay every night for a few nights. Or did most women have partners there all the time?

It's equally selfish for you to tell me my partner can't be there when i desperately need them though.

Mrsmarsch- good luck with the old screaming the place down. They won't give a crap.

It's equally selfish for you to tell me my partner can't be there when i desperately need them though.

It's selfish to want all post natal wards to be for couples instead of patients.

The hospital I am due to give birth at is apparently militant that curtains need to be open because the midwives need to be able to check on you easily (because they're understaffed).

So no, I wouldn't like to have 3 strange men there while my boobs are out and I'm bleeding and my fanjo may be on display, and I'm having to explain my toilet issues.

MrsM you sound ridiculous.

MrsMarsch the difference as I see it, is in your own home you can be as selfish as you like.
However, as you will soon find out, you can't adopt that attitude in a public place such as a hospital. Well you can, but be prepared for the wrath of the other women if you start screaming. (Never mind the staff!).

Not if you need your partner

Curtains absolutely never open for examinations or breastfeeding. Against all guidelines. They do like you to have them open at other times to get light to the baby (which I think is crap but anyway)

Mrsmarsch
What would you do in my position ie over 6 weeks before birth and 4 days after with pre eclampsia. Would you expect your dh to stay every night.

I had my baby 6 months ago in a London hospital, there were complications that led to him being in NICU and I ended up staying in for 9 days. It was simultaneously the best and worst time of my life and my DH stayed every single night with me, sleeping in a chair at my side, helping me up and down the stairs to the neo natal unit so we could be with our baby.

I - and all the other women in the three different bays I was moved between - had our curtains drawn at all times. Men were not allowed to use the toilets/showers on the ward, they were purely for the women, the partners that stayed had to use a different toilet out by the main reception desk. There was no shower for their use so my DH popped home every couple of days to freshen up - and bring me clean clothes too!

As I shuffled to the bathroom with surgery scars, bleeding, etc. yes I did pass other people's partners, but I can honestly say none of them bothered me, everyone was there for their own reasons and preoccupied with their own loved ones.

And yes, other cubicles watching TV loudly at night, talking at top volume and having their entire families over to eat odorous fast food was annoying, but that was both men and women and out of my control

Thurlow I had family look after DC1 and know many people who did the same - appreciate this is a fortunate position but probably not that rare? After all, most people will need to arrange a few hours' care for DC1 anyway to cover the birth of DC2 (assuming their DP will want to be with them for the birth) and that may be overnight care if they give birth at night.

When I had my dcs, I didn't have the choice. Men weren't allowed.

I don't think I would have been happy with it. Wards can be noisy at the best of time. Adding double the number of people would just make it worse.

Both times, I remember clearly struggling with bfing, DC not feeding/getting dehydrated. Other women struggling with bleeding, pain, whatever other issues thyat can be either quite ergo us and/or very personal. Are people really happy to talk abut the size of the clot they've just passed or the fact they've just wet themselves with unknown men around them?
With my first, I had to have a catheter put because my bladder was too weak. having 5 junior doctors around having a look was bad enough not to also have to think about another 5 men listening to all that and then commenting on it (because they will. A curtain doesn't stop sound and they will then started talking about it with their DP/DW).

I sent my husband home the night after my EMCS because neither of us had slept, I wanted him to get some rest and I didn't want other women to feel uncomfortable.

I made him stay the next night. Because nobody would help me pick up the baby. Nobody would help me into bed despite the fact that I could barely move due to complications so I had to stay in the chair. I had a large bleed which wasn't cleaned up until DH did it the next morning. I had a fever and was very unwell but the midwives were apparently too busy to give me fluids/check my obs despite the fact that I am a clinician and knew I was in need of help. I decided my need and my newborn baby outweighed the possible objections from behind the other curtains.

Of course staff should be providing this help. But clearly at present they do not.

In an ideal world partners wouldn't be necessary. But as things stand, post-cs women looking after newborns with no assistance from midwives is dangerous. I still can't quite believe the lack of care I got the night after my c-section. I was semi-delirious, in extreme pain, unable to move my legs, and yet had to hold DD all night because if I put her down there'd have been nobody to help me pick her up when she next needed feeding. I pressed the buzzer once and 45 minutes later an aide popped her head around the curtain and said someone would be with me soon. They were, two hours or so later, only to tell me off because I hasnt asked for painkillers sooner!!! In this kind of situation, the need for partners (or another helper) to stay should trump privacy fears. It isn't right to compare to an ordinary surgical ward as most people are not trying to take care of a helpless newborn after major surgery! Of course, much better would be properly staffed postnatal wards...

Zoe said it perfectly. Comparing with other wards is apples and oranges.

My DS was born by EMCS (with me being under GA) at close to midnight, I was taken from recovery to ward around 2AM I think and the next thing I remember is stirring at around 8AM. DS had been in his hospital cot next to me the entire time but not fed, changed etc. Nobody told me I was meant to - always thought that he would cry if hungry!

DH went home once I was at the ward because I was in a shared room and it wasn't allowed.

I think my catheter was finally removed at some stage that afternoon, after my (assigned community care) midwife came in and said she couldn't believe it was still in and went and roused on a hospital nurse to sort it out.

I was completely out of it for a good 12+ hours after surgery due to the GA and two failed epidurals and supposedly meant to be caring for a newborn at the same time. It didn't happen and I'm grateful that DS didn't suffer any long term effects due to my unintended neglect.

If there are not enough medical staff on hand to properly care for women and their babies (remembering that's now two patients, not just one) then partners should be allowed to stay because they are needed. Not wanted, but needed.

When I had dd2 nearly 2years ago my dp was allowed to stay in the delivery room with us overnight. Although dd was born just after midnight and we were only staying to wait for peads to check her out first thing then home

For various reasons I was going to need someone with me. The SoM and I agreed that if they couldn't find me a private room, my female friend would stay over rather than MrNC.

In the event, MrNC and male friend had already stayed with me overnight while I was in labour, so by 9pm the next night it made sense to pack MrNC off home to bed while female friend stayed, even though there was a private room. He stayed the next night and she did the one after, though only the first night involved serious neglect while I was immobile.

Second time round, we hoped I wouldn't need to stay in, but I did one night - the care was excellent that time - every baby was picked up and handed to its mother within a couple minutes - but sharing a room with 5 other women and 7 babies meant precious little sleep. Though every pair of curtains stayed shut the entire time even in the day so I didn't even see some of the other mothers.

In comparison, when my 4yo had to stay in hospital overnight (same hsopital) we were told a parent had to stay with him and each child in the 4 beds had at least one adult attempting to sleep in a chair, the floor, or in my case with ds on the bed. I spent quite a while multiple times walking around the main ward to find some staff to get him more morphine (with two kids intermittently screaming and one setting off alarms every half hour, it was almost as bad as a postnatal ward for lack of sleep).

Partners were allowed at Kings. Of 4 people in my ward only one partner stayed. My DH left because it had been a very long labour and he was knackered, better he went home to sleep properly than nap in the chair - I was terrified and would've loved him to stay but managed to be rational! I didn't even get into the ward until about 11pm, obviously women are coming and going at different times, so where do you draw the line? Should my DH have not been allowed in to settle us, bring bags etc?

The partner who stayed wasn't an issue at all for me. Yes I could hear talking through the curtains but they do give you privacy and it's hardly like a postnatal ward is silent at night time with all those babies.

Having DC2 at home was a far preferable experience however!

I cannot believe that there is someone in the world who would use a question about post birth experience to bash a religion. You would scream the place down and be unpleasant to other people for not being the centre of the fucking universe? Jesus wept - no wonder you are 'so incredibly close' to your partner, no fucker else would put up with you

I didn't even think about it really. DP stayed both nights I was in, I was induced late on Fri and DD was born in the early hours on Sunday morning, there wasn't really a chance for him to go home.

He stayed in our bay with the curtains drawn, with me, when we weren't in the delivery suite. I can't remember actually seeing another dad there but I heard them talking in other bays. That said I didn't really see many other mums either!

I do understand that KP in individual cases, but if partners staying becomes the norm then the women without partners, or whose partners have to work or look after kids, will receive worse care. My worry is that we are using partners to paper over the cracks in staffing and making it easier for staff to be cut even further. It's nurses and midwives that we need, not well-meaning OH's. All of the sensible reasons people have given for needing their partners could be fixed by providing a decent level of care.

Anyone know what happened to MN's campaign on this?

I don't think the hospital where I had my DC allows partners to stay overnight at all, unless you are actually in labour. I certainly didn't see any men there after visiting hours and they were very keen to hurry partners out of the door as soon as evening visiting finished. That was in 2005 and again in 2012.

I would have had my partner stay with me after DC1, as I was in a terrible, terrible state after an EMCS in the late afternoon. I was still in a room on my own as they kept me on the delivery ward overnight for monitoring. It wasn't even mentioned as a possibility though.

With DC2, no way would I have asked my DP to stay overnight, despite again having had a c-section and being in my own room. I was fine and just didn't need him there tbh. Besides, he needed to get home asap for DC1.

If I'd been in a shared room, I would have hated other men being there all night, however lovely they were. In fact I would have discharged myself whatever state I was in, as no way would I wish 'strange' men to be a foot away from me when in such a vulnerable state. I'm pretty sure nothing untoward would happen, but it would be an emotional reaction from me. I also think it's a safety issue - loads of pregnant women have abusive partners and you have no way of knowing who someone is in this situation.

MrsM you sound ridiculous and incredibly precious.
When I had my dc there was no question of partners being allowed to stay overnight thank goodness. Strangely enough, giving birth was no easier then, but guess what, we survived You could have screamed the place down, but the midwives would have quite happily got security to physically remove your partner if necessary. And if you'd threatened to discharge yourself they'd have been equally as happy to pack your bag and show you the door. Ffs, woman get a grip - your needs don't trump the rights of others.

Have read the OP posts, not all of the other ones.

To answer OP question, my partner stayed most of the first night, but our maternity hospital isn't typical in that it is all private rooms.

Despite this for us personally it was a mistake for DH to stay the night. He only had a chair, couldn't do a great deal to help feeding wise and in the periods when the baby slept, I did too and he was left unable to sleep in an uncomfortable chair. I sent him to the car to sleep in the end, he would have been better going home, having a proper sleep in bed and coming back in the morning with a McDonald's able to help me. And this is what we did the second night, and following the birth of our second child.

I'm well aware I'll probably be flamed for this but I insisted on having DH stay with me. I have complex mental health issues which became much worse during pregnancy and shortly after having DS. DH was my only link to sanity and helped me in a way that no midwives or other HCPs were able to.

The second night after DS was born went to the loo and then attempted to leave him behind at the hospital and walk home, in the middle of the night, in March. The only thing that stopped me was the knowledge that DH was in the next room and that if he was there then I could get through this.

In my local hospital there weren't any side rooms otherwise I would quite happily have paid for. The midwives had no specialist mental health training and no idea how to help me. I wasn't deemed unwell enough for the Mother and Baby Unit and even if I had been they didn't allow partners to stay.

If it makes any difference DH is a doctor and worked on the same postnatal ward. If it had been any other week the other women in the ward would have seen him in a professional capacity, including in the middle of the night.

I think the issue is where there is a black and white response.....all partners or none at all

I personally think it depends on the behaviour of the partner....dh stayed the first night with both of ours....ds1 because honestly it hadn't occurred to us it was an issue.... and after I had been very ill and ds1 was in transitional are dh understandably didn't want to leave us....but he was as silent as possible stayed well behind my curtain so he ouldnt see others and they couldn't see him ....he was massively respectful

With ds2 I was in icu and ds2 was in special care and my friend had ds1 ....frankly once I was out of danger and I was moved had anyone bitched that they thought my dh being there was unnecessary or intrusive (bearing in mind he behaved the same as before he went to great great lengths not to bother anyone ) I would have given them the telling off of their lives.....he had believed he was watching us die in front of him (literally my blood pressure was through the roof I had collapsed and was unconscious he whole shebang) and if he needed to sit quietly in a corner while we prayed our newborn would make it (before anyone comments there were reasons we couldn't be with him and it was horrific) the he damn well should be allowed to

Saying that if he was loud and obnoxious as I experienced a few being the I'd be eating the charge to have them kicked out (as I roundly told off one obnoxious father who was loudly making obscene breastfeeding "jokes" whilst I knew my baby was getting a lumbar puncture....lucky for him I was bed bound and physically unable to sit up)

So surely it's not a simple answer

Just read your post, OldFarticus and agree with you 100%. I believe that the NHS is now encouraging this so that inadequate care is covered up. I can well believe all the tales of being abandoned, unable to move, with a baby who needed help left out of reach and no one answering the buzzer for two hours, because I've experienced it myself. The women who have no partner staying with them then suffer if this is implemented everywhere.

Even with my second DC, when I knew what I was doing and just got on with it rather than ask the midwives, I ended up making a complaint about this. I was still completely numb from the waist down, had a catheter in and couldn't pull myself to a sitting position yet. A midwife left my baby in his cot near the end of my bed, so out of reach to me. When I buzzed and asked another midwife to help me to get him out to change his nappy, she actually tutted at me and snappily told me that she would do it 'this time' as it wasn't too busy, but I really needed to 'Do that sort of thing myself, you know' - all with a sneer of contempt at me. When I asked how I was meant to accomplish this, she just sighed and left the room again.

The solution to that is more staff though, not everyone bringing in an extra person to create noise, get in the way and use the already full facilities all night.