Freaking out about male birth attendants

[bubblegumgirl]

I know I'll probably get pilloried for this by many people, but I am really freaking out about the prospect of having male doctors at my child's birth. I have never had a man go "down there" unless I was in a relationship with him and to have a stranger, no matter how qualified, seeing that part of me and having his hands on me, makes me feel completely sick and violated.

I chose to go to the birth centre because they only have female midwives, but I am now facing the prospect of an induction on Monday and I really really do not want a male doctor, not for any reason.

I keep hearing about how when I'm in labour I won't care, but I really feel that I would care and that it would actually interfere with my labour.

Has anybody been in that situation, not wanting a male doctor and being forced to have one, and how did you handle it?

The doctor who told me the speculum that had been used as an instrument of torture for my smears for many years and suggested a different one was male. I will love him for that forever

Yes Evans it is a clinical issue and yes in my case I would have done but instead have left with a disability.

I cannot find link now but one Hospital Trust in Kent has a pdf document dealing with this very issue which says the women right to refuse must be respected etc, etc

Bubblegum- if you are Kent it may be worth contacting PALS as one of hospitals does have a working policy in place

Christ the lack of empathy on here is astounding.

OK so to spell it out.

You have someone who is traumatised and does not want a man to perform any kind of intimate examination. As to why she is traumatised use your imagination.

Denying her the option of female caregivers might well mean that she does not seek treatment for whatever has happened, she may not go to the police about whatever has happened, she may never obtain psychological help for whatever has happened, she may through her life not access various screening programs etc etc etc

That is a huge price for an already traumatised individual to pay just so that some people can make a point about others (whose personal stories they do not know) to "get a grip".

The lack of empathy is astounding.

Before giving birth for the first time, the thought of doing so naked gave me the horror. I hated the widespread suggestion on Mumsnet that I wouldn't care - I would still be me, right? How and why would I change my personality?

Well - it was in the nud, and as was widely predicted it was a side issue. The only way I can explain it is your "higher" brain, with its neuroses, is entirely pushed to one side, and your body is in charge. By all means state a preference on your birthing plan. But once that's done, tell yourself you've done all you can and have faith it'll be ok.

I hope for you sake, and the male midwives, that you don't get a male attendant. Feeling violated is an over reaction imo. He is there to do his job. Not to attack you.

It is really distressing to me that someone would deliberately compound another's suffering to make a point in this way.

The NHS currently allows people to request a certain sex and accomodates that request wherever possible. That is the compassionate thing to do. Changing that and trying to force people to get a grip because you find them "ridiculous" will result in un-needed suffering and for what? To make you feel better in some way? What does it matter to you if someone who was abused as a child doesn't want a man sticking anything up their vagina, for example? What do you gain by denying them the right to ask for a woman? You gain them not getting a smear is what. Why? Why would you want to do that?

I find it incomprehensible but as you find my point of view incomprehensible I suspect this will go nowhere.

"These are not good points. There are plenty of female hospital doctors, but you can only have a certain number of doctors on a rota. Night shifts has, in most hospitals, one registrar and one consultant. You can't plan the rota round having two consultants on each night, one female, one male."

With respect Dino, that wasn't what I said. In fact, I explicitly said the opposite down thread, that you couldn't double staff to allow for always having a woman.

My point is simply that, whilst we do not have parity in numbers of male and female obstetric registrars and consultants, the idea that you can change this issue with political lobbying is a total non starter, because it isn't possible at an implementation level.

BUUBLEGUM- The hospital where they are working protocol is in place is East Kent and female Consultant was in charge. It was a pdf document I found via google.

I suspect they have had a legal case similar to mine which is why they have working protocol to address the issue.

Itsfab and others.
That is not true of all males is it?
and prob not all females either.

And I presume that those that object have not been violated in any way? Lucky you.

I do find this forum weird.

On the one hand you have the feminist board where lots of things that men do is seen as suspect.
And threads like this, where presumably female posters cannot begin to understand rape etc.

I agree sardines that the lack of compassion is astounding.

Rabbit - I didn't say all men and you are completely wrong in your assumptions.

I feel sorry for the OP but I also feel that people who say they will feel violated about something that has happened generally haven't been violated for real. Just as "I'm depressed" is thrown around casually so is the "I feel violated" comment.

hasn't not has.

Sardines - where on earth, from the OP, did you get any of that? You are surmising. Lack of compassion has absolutely nothing to do with this, whatsoever. It is simply, sometimes, not possible to accommodate a whim

Itsfab that is a very dangerous supposition.

You have no way whether people who tell others that they have been violated have or not. To assume they are lying is not constructive.

I don't think that people should have to justify their reasons for requesting male or female caregivers anyway, it's not up to anyone else to pass judgement on how another person feels, whether it is a "valid" feeling or not.

I dont understand your post Itsfab.

Dangerous is rather an over reaction. I am posting on the information given, as is only what anyone can do.

I never said any one was lying. Where did you get that from?

Evans, the fact that you talk about all of this as a whim, in itself shows your lack of compassion.

Genuinely, how does all this apply to the Hippocratic oath? If a female patient is in am emergency situation and will die without medical intervention, but has notes detailing no male can touch her without it being assault, what is a male doctor to do?
Risk a court case and a warning on a previously unblemished medical record for trying to save a life, or let someone die and risk being struck off for not attempting to save a life?

?

I am talking about the general principle of whether people should be allowed to request a sex of caregiver.

Your strong assertions that they should not on the basis that they should instead "get a grip" is one I disagree with, I have been trying to spell out as obviously as I can why I think that your approach lacks compassion.

I can't help that, rabbit.

But she thinks that she probably will feel violated. Is that not enough?

At such an important moment and part of her life, are you saying that she should wing it and see?

I think I am right in saying that doing things like that at that time, can result in traumatic PND.

rabbit - or perhaps they have been in life threatening positions for themselves and their unborn children, and had their lives saved by a male hcp?

The context is different for lots of posters, and we have had posters who have been in abusive situations who have said they were able to put those fears into context and were grateful for a male hcp in a birth context in the end, although the thought had been anathema at the beginning.

We are all different. We have all experienced different things.

And I think you'll find that a lot of posters on the feminist forum have husbands, brothers and sons, and who stand up against a lot of the 'all men are rapists' stuff. To use feminism to promote discrimination by gender is well odd.

That said, of course feminists will seek to protect women from abuse and support where they have been at the receiving end of abuse. But not by further discrimination. That way madness lies.

Op - good luck tomorrow. You will probably not see a man at all throughout, but if you do, I am sure you will make your own decision at the time. It's a shame you hadn't discussed your history and anxiety with your care team in advance, but I am sure they will do their best to abide by your wishes. You may even surprise yourself by how you feel during the labour, and come out of the experience with a new context, as many other posters have.

How on earth do you know whether the op has been previously violated??

Am I right in that your post that I cant read well, needs a comma after the word happened?

demented I imagine it would have to go to court to get an order to enforce treatment against the wishes of the patient.

In such an extreme circumstance, I would imagine that they would find a woman from somewhere, if the alternative was death.

People can refuse treatment though, even if it does mean their death. It's more complicated when the patient is a pregnant woman I suppose but in the UK AFAIK doctors still have to treat the woman as a person in her own right and abide by her wishes.

Situations like this are very rare though, so I think are a poor example for this conversation. Far more frequent would be men & women not going for screening tests and the like.

dementedma- I suspect that has been dealt with in law. It would be so unfair for a male HCP to be punished if the patient has insisted a male doesn't treat them. I wonder if it is similar to JW who have died as they won't accept a blood transfusion. The doctors aren't allowed to give one anyway, are they.