Reasons for not breastfeeding in public

[DitaVonCheese]

A discussion on another forum I frequent has got me thinking and I'd love to hear some other people's views. If you didn't/don't breastfeed in public (or if you do but are nervous), is it because you're worried about showing too much, or anxious about being told off by a security guard/interfering old bat/unenlightened male, or for some other reason I've missed?

When I first started I was worried about getting told off but now would probably quite happily cause a scene if necessary I think now I'd be more annoyed if someone just kept tutting but didn't actually say anything, so I'd end up being annoyed all day rather than letting rip!

Dita the change of law in Scotland has had a positive effect on breastfeeding there (so I've been told by people in Scotland, I don't have any figures) so if it can work there, why not here? As for what c an you do, find out if there is a picnic local to you and I'm sure there is lots you can do to help with it, writing to your MPs or local support groups for example.

Purple, I think Hooter Hiders are another brand. I think in a way they are a good idea, some people don't like showing anything and if a cover means they will breastfeed then that's brilliant. However I think that they send a message out when you see pictures of happy smiley mummies sitting on a park bench that NIP should be covered. I think they need to be covered by similar laws to formula.

Sleepless, I have an older nursling and generally we feed at home, however there are times when nothing else will do and if it's what she needs then why should I worry about anyone else anymore than I should worry when feeding my 14 week old? Be more concerned if your friend is giving her LO chocolates and crisps all the time, at least what she's having is only healthy.

I don't know if I didn't notice things last time but I've started to notice people's attitudes towards me feeding this time and I mean family! The one and only bad comment was Tink's 2nd birthday. I started writing it down and realised it's enough for another thread!

god you are obnoxious sleepless. Sorry am not as polite as tiktok.

Are you really a peer supporter? At what age do you withdraw your support of breastfeeding mothers?

Yes some 2 and 3 year olds are still enthusiastic feeders. This is normal. Didnt they explain that on your course?

Have just realised that although I'm living in England now, when I was bf my 2 dcs I was living in Scotland, so maybe that is why I felt more comfortable. I wasn't aware the same law didn't apply to England. It did make me feel more confident knowing that should someone comment, (which noone ever did) the law was on my side.

I don't agree with what sleepless has said but don't think it can be called obnoxious.
It's fairly typical of lots of people with certain views on child independence and the inappropriateness of bf a child over a certain age.
But yes I was ed to read she was a peer supporter - I assumed I'd read that wrong somehow...

apparently they changed the name from Hooter Hiders to Bebe au Lait to seem a bit more upmarket.

and Sleepless - does your friend ask YOU to nurse her toddler? if not, then i'd keep your opinions to yourself. there's nothing wrong with BFing a toddler and it's only because you hardly ever see it (unless it's for the 'freaky factor') that it seems so weird. personally i'm much more offended by mums giving their babies chocolate than any BFing.

sleepless: you say:

"you think i am being nasty"

Yes, I do. The use of the term 'militan' and your judgemental attitude is nasty.

You continue:

"-my initial point is that there isn't really any 'need' to have a 2 year old attached to the breast all day every day-it is preventing his usual behaviour (and i see him every day in different settings so am aware the impact that it has upon his personality)"

But toddlers do behave differently in different settings - this is normal and desirable.

You continue:

" i wouldn't call anyone a poor parent"

Well, you're coming pretty darn close to calling her this, put it that way!

Onward:

"if you can find it proven somewhere that a 2 year old with a breast in it's mouth for most of the day gets as much out of that day than the days it doesn't have a breast in it's mouth then you can have what's left of the babys easter eggs..."

Don't be daft. No one can 'prove' anything like that. You cannot quantify the experience of breastfeeding in that way - this mum may be meeting this kid's needs in the way that's best for them. I can't say if that is reducing his ability to 'get as much out of that day' compared to other days, and nor can you!

However, this is the real shocker:

"And, having attended the breastfeeding club and do the llpeersupporters course"

Do you really mean you have done the peer supporter training?

The one where they want you to leave judgements of other people's breastfeeding behind?

The one where they encourage you to understand that babies and toddlers can continue to gain benefit from breastfeeding for an open-ended period?

The one where you are trained to listen to mothers and to see breastfeeding as part of a relationship that meets emotional needs as well as physical ones?

The one where you would be discouraged from using disparaging terms like 'dangling off their breast' and 'hauling her top down'?

Or was it some other poor-quality course and you have become confused about its provenance?

Either way - have a word with whoever is supervising you, and ask for some extra training.

i did the peersupporter so that it wasn't just women with 4 year olds involved- i do seem to be a lone voice here but i am going to continue with my opinion as it is just that-my opinion-i am not sure at which point i was obnoxious but that's merely your opinion and is as valid as mine-remember that.
i am pleased some of you are nursing your toddlers/schoolies- good for you. What i am also pleased about is that breastfeeding is now something more people are trying than previously-what i feel again-my opinion so very legitimate-even if only to me is that when one goes for help-being 'helped' by people with 3 year olds yiking their tops off demanding milk wouldn't encourage me (if i was already struggling) to continue. Many people like to feed for a year or so,surely you must be as supportive of them and their feelings as of the feelings of those who whack em out meal time/any time for a child who we already know doesn't need 'feeding' and this is my point- feel free to be as insulting and nasty as you like-it matches your fleece

elkie - yes one was that pattern, the otehr i haven't actually received yet it's in the post. apparently it's black and white.
i think that's one thing that i find so funny about them. if you are trying to hide the fact that you are BFing then WHY would you put on a big brightly coloured thing like that?

Wow, lots of cross posts.

Sleepless, unless you are a Time Lord there is no way you can say that it affects his personality because unless you can see two time-lines you can't say that it affects him. He might be nursing all the time because that is his personality.

I still wear my maternity clothes and I find them helpful because the tops are baggy enough to feed under and the bottoms cover my belly. The way I see it maternity clothes these days are really nice and actually newer and nicer than a lot of my normal clothes so why should I get rid of them? Some of them don't even look like maternity clothes. Most important of all they're in my old size and don't put pressure on my scar.

she - not it, sorry
or "it" referring to her post
Either way, I sounded obnoxious there

It's not me who thinks you are 'obnoxious', sleepless, but I do think (as I said) you are being (ie behaving) nasty with your comments.

I truly hope you are not offering peer support to other mothers - you may have opinions about breastfeeding toddlers, but as a peer supporter you need to get over them in order to help other women.

I agree - a struggling woman needs sensitive and personal help, and this might well rule out the supporter offering help at the moment she is feeding her own baby/toddler/child. A sensitive peer supporter would not offer help at that moment.

You seem to be saying that peer supporters who feed toddlers are not good peer supporters...presumably they should be stopped peer supporting? What age do you think they should stop? Or should they just agree not to do it outside the home?

Do you realise how offensive that is to the many peer supporters and breastfeeding counsellors who theselves have fed/are feeding older babies and toddlers?

on this occasion i am referring to a specific child in specific circumstances with specific examples-i asked a question about feeding a two year old in public and perhaps mistakenly/lazily used the word 'militant'(i am now referring even lazier cliches by the way with my use of the word'fleece')my point,which i am sticking to regardless by the way-is that many women are puts off persevering with feeding as breastfeeding support/groups really DO(in my personal experience) seem to be run by women who are feeding toddlers-bully for them. A lot of women don't want to do that.
the fact you are denying that this could even be a possibility (despite me seeing this with my own eyes) is making me think you're just really unreasonable and blinkered on this subject so i shall do one from this thread and leave you to it.

The HV and MW (one was also an NCT BFC) that run the group I used to go to breastfed several children each and for a long time, they both talk openly about their own nursing relationships and how long they fed for. I found in the hardest moments knowing they had done well with their own children meant I could trust them to help me as they know what it takes and not to judge me for whatever I did. It also helped me to realise that there was no point worrying the little things when Tink was tiny because they really were little things that I wouldn't remember when she was older.

well done to everyone that has BF in public.

you are making it better for all of us.
excellent work

sleepless - you make a good point but it's lost in your judgementalism!

It is a good point to wonder if women at the start of motherhood are encouraged or discouraged if they see women breastfeeding toddlers.

And if they are - and some may be - then do we think 'lets ask peer supporters who feed toddlers not to be peer supporters' or 'lets ask them not to feed away from home' or 'lets ask them not to actually run the bf support groups'....or to say, 'well, maybe it puts a few off, but they may get used to it in time and in any case, other women may think it's great and be inspired by it!'

Here's the option you have chosen - post to a talkboard, say you are a peer supporter, call people who bf toddlers away from home 'militant' and accuse them of 'making a statement' and add to it a criticism of a mother for stunting her toddler's social development and asking for proof that it doesn't.

That's the worst option - yes?

purplemonkeydishwasher The breastfeeding covers aren't so much to disguise the fact you are breastfeeding, but to keep nipples and breast out of view.

I have very big tits, huge areolas and a flaily baby and sitting close next to a couple in a restaurant in a hot country where you can't wear cardies and other cover ups is simply easier on everyone to use this. Yes, I'm breastfeeding, but they're not having to see it up close.

Remember, gay sodomy is against the law here and nudity is punishable.

so when will this law come into place?

I may be wrong (feel free to correct me if so), but I thought that the breastfeeding in public law only protected your rights to feed a baby under 6 months in public? This is of course ridiculous and in conflict with the recommendation to feed until 12 months. It also sends out entirely the wrong message which is that it almost confirms the views of these judging breastfeeding in public by saying "this is only OK for the younger baby". I really think a law needs to cover the rights of all women to BF, or if not, it is better not to have a law at all.

On another note, I have a breastfeeding cover, but not like the ones shown on here already, but like this. Looks more like a normal, lightweight, black poncho really and allows me to not worry about everything hanging out everywhere...

I do apologise for using the word obnoxious. You are entitled to your opinion.

Tiktok's comments are to the point. Surely with your opinions, you are not the right person to be a Peer Supporter?

All your talk of 'breasts in mouths' and toddlers 'hanging off breasts' speak loudly of feelings of disgust. What's all that about?

When I was pregnant, seeing people feeding older babies made me quite uncomfortable. It didn't feel 'right' to me and I was sure I wasn't going to continue past a year intially - certainly not when biting started etc. I remember making some ridiculous statements

Anyway, it didn't put me off breastfeeding at all - after all, surely I could just stop if I wanted!

We're still going with nearly 15mo DS and I am now very glad I know people who are feeding toddlers. DS and I established some rules about feeding out and about very early - about 10mo (popping on and off is allowed to a certain extent but if he wriggled too much we stop the feed) and now he generally behaves very well on the occasions he does feed out and about. (we do work on this constantly though, he's not superbaby). We also learnt up front about biting and other nursing behaviours so were able to deal with them with help from friends and MN.

IMO it is precisely because seeing a toddler BF is so rare that it makes us feel uncomfortable. People who have seen DS grow up (and were previously uncomfortable with Extended BF) now see it as totally normal - I didn't just start feeding a 1yo+, he's just my baby that's still doing what he was doing 1, 3, and 6mo ago (just less now)

I'm guessing the 2yo who is on the breast a lot misses his mummy and that is his way of connecting with her when he does see her. If they're both happy with that, then why should anyone else judge?

wow sleepless. if you are like this about your friend how on earth are you with everyone else? does she know you think about her like this?

my friend was not at all happy with my bfing ds past his second birthday, but i talked to her about it and she changed her mind.

I'm glad to correct you, Academicmum

This has been discussed loads of times on mumsnet, and I don't have time to link to previous threads. However, I found this bloglink www.lactivist.net/?p=141 which clarifies it.

There is no law in England making it illegal to harrass bf mothers. There is no prospect of one at the moment. However, women in the UK anywhere can breastfeed where they like, whatever the age of their child. It is not illegal to do so

Also, there is no recommendation anywhere to breastfeed to 12 months (where have you got that from???). There is no upper limit. Current guidance is to breastfeed exclusively to 6 mths and thereafter as long as mum and baby want, alongside solid foods. WHO has 'up to 2 years and beyond' for their recommendation.

Hope this helps

I'm pissed off that sleepless has removed herself from this debate.

I have been polite (apart from saying what she says was 'nasty') and explained the illogicalities of her position...and like too many people who raise these issues, she has decided she is being 'got at' for having and expressing an opinion.

I want her to come back and engage with the arguments!

I am also seriously concerned that a peer support training programme has not revealed and challenged her views

I BF my daughter until she was 17 months old and didn't feel embarassed about it and really didn't have anything that stopped me.
My FIL did get a bit embarrassed when I did it and generally left the room but I kept saying to him "you can't see anything, it's ok you don't have to leave" and after a few visits he'd stay in the room - but on the other side. Think he's a bit 'old-school' though and wanted to be discrete for me.

The only one time I did have a comment about BF in public was when I went for a meal with my sister and her friends. DD started crying for a feed so I searched the restaurant for somewhere quiet to feed her but there was absolutely nowhere and the toilets were scabby so I wasn't doing it in there (sometimes they have comfy seats and things so I don't mind). Anyway I sat down at the table and started to feed her (and I was always very discrete). My sister's friend and her partner were sitting opposite me. The bloke had been talking to someone then turned back and registered what I was doing. He then muttered quietly under his breath "oh for F**ks Sake" and turned away with a disgusted expression on his face.
I felt utterly humiliated and couldn't find a way to say anything in response - most unlike me. I really disliked him after that for making me feel so bad about something that is so natural.

But to be honest that was one time in 17 months and I can honestly say I hadn't felt uncomfortable except that one time.

Is Academicmum not right that the law only makes it illegal to harrass mothers who bfip up to the age of 6 months? I know there's nothing illegal about bfip after that, but she's right that it sends out a conflicting message - why the need to have a cut off point at all?