Reasons for not breastfeeding in public

[DitaVonCheese]

A discussion on another forum I frequent has got me thinking and I'd love to hear some other people's views. If you didn't/don't breastfeed in public (or if you do but are nervous), is it because you're worried about showing too much, or anxious about being told off by a security guard/interfering old bat/unenlightened male, or for some other reason I've missed?

When I first started I was worried about getting told off but now would probably quite happily cause a scene if necessary I think now I'd be more annoyed if someone just kept tutting but didn't actually say anything, so I'd end up being annoyed all day rather than letting rip!

Ah right - didn't know that. What about bottles and things?
Do they incentivise bf at all?

Not sure on bottles, presents from family?

they get free milk tokens? i dunno-a combination of that and other social pressures none of which they are entitled to be moulded by as it doesn't suit middle class sensibilities.
I breastfed my 1st baby as a single mum of 21 living in a council flat-my mother never fed any of her 6 children and arrived with formula and bottles as i arrived home from hospital. Had it not been for the support/encouragement of my nice middle class,older,better educated peers i met when i was aquanatal and antenatal i would not have even thought of it.
I spent this morning at a meeting at our local ss centre working on strategies to encourage hard to reach people (although the official name of these people has now changed i can't remember what we call them this week)you'll be utterly HORRIFIED to hear that i am going to the postnatal group to give a quick 'whats on' heads up as well as going to the teen mums etc. i'll make sure i don't wear fleece/weave yoghurts while i am there though...

I am a teacher and bf my baby DS. I live in a very socially deprived area and the bf/formula rate at HV and baby clinic drop-ins seems to be slightly more weighted towards breast feeding as far as I can tell. I have never heard anyone there make any negative comments about the way that other people feed their babies. However, the people from whom I have received the most surprise and/or disapproval have been my colleagues - usually, women educated to degree level - who seem to think I am a bit strange for bfing my son longer than the first few weeks. I teach in a college and a few people there have asked me if I have got DS onto formula "yet". God help me when I go back to work and it gets out that I am expressing milk on the premises...

My favourite pro-bf comment was from a tiny ancient bloke in a real ale pub down the road from me who commented "Ee, are you feeding that bugger gold top, missus? Well done, e's massive".

...Anyway, I think the main reason the local children's centre and drop in classes are so supportive is that people are helped to make their own decisions about the way they raise their children and that the emphasis is on supporting each person according to their needs and circumstances, not according to how their decision may be seen by others.

My Mum BF all 8 of us too! And fed youngest til 2.5ish, but only morn and night by then. She used to take us as models to BF workshops as the HV asked her to as she looked so healthy and is very ordinary. She fed us very privately wherever she happened to be, just shoved us up her jumper. She told me if anyone stares at you to stare back so I used to actively look for anyone staring when out and about so I could stare back. Nobody ever did, how annoying!

Sounds like good work you're doing there sleepless.
What is the 'fleece wearing' thing?
Is that like north face fleece or sheepskin fleece? (sorry not 'with it' at all)

it was a clearly,very ill advised joke that i now am too frightened to qualify by trying to explain it...(we refer to earth mothery types (whilst obviously now running the risk of offending those who are earth mothers)fleece wearers...)it's generally an aztec type fleece and goes with some kind of 'ethnic' top and sensible sandals i am wearing birkenstocks here and don't have a problem with ethnic anything by the way before they come after me again
and ps FWIW it's not work.i am a housewife,it's just to keep me out of mischief...

aztec type fleece haha - can totally picture it. Would it have those zig-zag patterns on it?
I'm a bit of a lentil weaver in my ways but don't really look like one...wonder if I should buy more purple tops with tiny mirrors on...

jesus-i've just re-read the whole thread-you've really jumped on this and then made out i ran away.
I asked the initial questions.I've reiterated my points-about 2 situations i have seen and felt from my own experience-many of you have really decided to leap on the words 'fleece' and 'militant' and despite calling me judgemental have then poured forth with your own misguided judgements-i hope you're all very happy with yourselves for effectively burying what might have been a lively,open debate.I am prepared to take on all comers on this provided they don't quote throwaway comments about hairy ankles as my clear dislike of women who don't have full body waxes weekly as fact

So ourlot, if your mum bf a 2.5 year old in front of novices, do you think she put them off? Should she have pretended she had weaned the toddler ages ago?

i don't think anyone has said you shouldn't do it? far be it from me to tell you to do anything/not do anything. I merely put a couple of questions to you which nobody has answered as far as i can see. It's the absolute lack of any acceptance that actually-when a kid's eating 3 meals a day and drinking from a cup is it really necessary to be sitting in cafes cradling a 3 year old and breastfeeding it? I have given a couple of examples of situations that the naysayers have totally ignored preferring to focus on leg shaving and walking clothing...so-can you shed any light on any of my points?in a grown up intelligent way?

She didn't feed during the day after the age of about 1ish. I don't know if the youngest was a model and why would she pretend to have done something she hadn't?
You do what you like SPB, but surely you'd prefer for ALL Mums to BF for at least 6 months than fight the cause that ALL BF Mums should continue til beyond 2?

sleepless, I have twice tried to engage you in a debate about what it might mean if you think women bf toddlers are likely to discourage other mothers from breastfeeding...I have said, twice, that I think it's worth debating, because it is at least possible that if women don't identify with other women, they could be put off. It's also possible that an open attitude and a welcoming, supportive approach overcomes any differences in breastfeeding, in clothing and in depilatory habits

One aspect of this debate would be the all-important questions of acceptance - clearly, you don't want to stop women from breastfeeding their toddlers (even if you prefer not to do this yourself)....so do we stop mothers from bf their toddlers at a support group? Do we prevent women from being peer supporters if they breastfeed toddlers? And how on earth do you present yourself as non-judgemental and open to the teen mums group and the postnatal group you are meeting, with attitudes like the ones you have shown here?

You say your remarks about hairiness and fleeces were jokes and not to be taken seriously - but they were written in an unpleasant tone, in posts which were clearly full of negative judgements, so why would people not want to respond? I seriously suggest your approach is utterly inept and I wouldn't want you within 10 miles of any support group I was connected with, unless you went through some serious one-to-one retraining first

Just to clarify some info futher down the thread: the 'welfare milk scheme' was replaced by the 'Healthy Start' scheme some years ago. Women on certain benefits receive vouchers these days for fruit, veg and other foods, and those other foods may include formula.

mrsjammi, I have heard of groups that ask mothers of over ones not to come, but my understanding is that this is because teeny tiny fragile new babies don't mix with big bruising toddlers....and busy groups may not have the space to accomodate both age groups.

I think it's lovely for some groups to be open to all comers, though, where space allows, and as you say, it can be great as 'normalising' thing just to see it.

In a friendly group, people can forget whether other mothers are older, younger, hairier, sandal-ier, whatever, and they can get over these barriers and share the most important thing they have in common ie that they are all mothers seeking friendship and support.

Sleepless, when you add a ?but? in you cancel out what you said before it, ?I support breastfeeding but?? ?I don?t mean to be rude but?? I think that is part of what people are taking exception to. You can?t say you support breastfeeding if you put conditions on it.

I?ve said before in this thread that on my peer course most had already stopped breastfeeding, some had bottlefed and one (like the trainer) didn?t even have children. I went to a group run by a MW and a HV (one of them is an NCT BFC) they are both very supportive of AP ways but they?re not ?lentil weavers?. Science does back up a lot of AP practices - in fact I don?t know of any that isn?t. I can honestly say I?ve never come across the type you mention and I don?t think it?s me! I?m currently tandeming a 15 week old and a 2y 9m old, I?m probably into AP more because I like the scientific side to it. And I might have hairy legs but that would be because I have a bad back and can?t do them myself and don?t care whilst the weather means they?re hidden under my jeans.

Ourlot, there are times when my elder daughter wants ?me me? during the day. She is chronic asthmatic and sometimes she will just flake out; if she?s hungry then she will not take solids and my milk is all she will take. It?s not unknown for her to be so tired that she has nothing but milk for a day or two. (I don?t need any medical advice from anyone, her paediatricians are aware of how she goes and that she is still nursed, they?ve also said it is a good job I do). I will not ever care what anyone thinks when I am nursing my daughters, if they need it they need it and it is not for anyone else to determine that need but us. You never did answer my question, how would you like me to breastfeed? Is there a certain amount that can be shown or an area that mustn?t?

Yes toddlers can feed on breastmilk. NOTHING matches it. It is the most complete and balanced meal there is, there is nothing bad in it, every bit of it is goodness that is easily accessible to the child. Even to an adult there is nothing like breastmilk, not that it would be practical for adults to live on it. Your breasts will go floppy after awhile of feeding because you no longer need to store milk in them; your body gets used to the demand and makes it when it?s needed. I know that when I?ve been full my toddler will empty both sides in about ten minutes!

1. If she's got time to put on a suit and shave her legs she clearly doesn't need support

Why not? Just because a woman can put on a suit doesn?t mean that she can put on a baby!

Sleepless, on a totally separate note, you do realise that The Red Book isn?t much use when you have a fully breastfed baby? In fact few babies will follow that book, unfortunately HCP?s don?t always know how to read them. I?ve had many visits from my HV in a flap only to find when looked at on a personalised chart my babies have done beautifully, following the line spot on.

Sasamax, you get vouchers towards milk and vegetables during pregnancy and when you have young children. You can use them on formula or yourself. I think some people see it as free baby food whereas I see it as the government paying me to breastfeed.

Some quotes:

If the woman acts in a discreet and modest manner!!!?? Defined by WHOM?

Discreet to one person is... Just feeding a baby with no blanket.
Discreet to another is... With a blanket covering the baby and breast.
Discreet to another is... In a bathroom.
Discreet to another is... In a toilet stall.
Discreet to another is... At the mother and child's home.
Discreet to another is... With the curtains closed.
Discreet to another is... In the bedroom.
Discreet to another is... With a bottle of pumped milk.
Discreet to another is... In a bottle with formula...

---

If a woman breastfeeds with her whole breast out of the shirt, there's someone in the room wishing she would pull the shirt down a little more.

If she pulls her shirt down a little more, there's someone in the room wishing she would put a blanket over her side boob or cleavage.

If she blankets her boob, there's someone wishing she would put the blanket over the baby's head.

If she blankets her baby, there's someone wishing she was in the corner.

If she moves to the corner, there's someone wishing she would face the wall.

If she faces the wall, there's someone wishing she would leave the room.

Can't please 'em all, so do what feels right to you, I say. But regardless of how you do it, keep nursing, ladies.

----

I for one am sick to death of people telling me what breastfeeding is "like."

BFing is like defecation or urination, because liquid is coming out of your body.

BFing is like picking your nose or scratching your balls in public, because it's rude.

BFing is like masturbation, because it's natural.

BFing is like making love, because it's private.

Let's all shut up about what BFing is like and talk about what it is: a baby eating! That's it! It's eating! It's like eating! Because it is eating!!!!

Sometimes I eat alone with my husband and we hold hands and gaze into each other's eyes and it's beautiful.

Sometimes I eat with my parents and my brothers and it's loud and we all talk at once and it's joyful.

Sometimes I eat in a mall food court with a bunch of strangers because I'm famished and can't wait to get home.

And get this: my baby does exactly the same thing!!! To everyone who thinks that nursing is gross, or private, or so freakin' special that I have to make it a Hallmark moment every time I do it, think for a minute and realize that it's

JUST
FREAKING
EATING!!!!!

--
Janet Jackson, September 2007 (no, not "the" Janet Jackson)

sleepless I think your point has been answered but just to add - when a kid's eating 3 meals a day and drinking from a cup is it really necessary to be sitting in cafes cradling a 3 year old and breastfeeding it?
No, not necessary at all. Is it necessary for the child to eat bananas? Have a cuddle from Grandma? No, but these things are NICE, HEALTHY and don't do any harm. When you argue the grandma cuddles should stop, I'll take your point.

ourlot,
"You do what you like SPB, but surely you'd prefer for ALL Mums to BF for at least 6 months than fight the cause that ALL BF Mums should continue til beyond 2?"

I want every woman to breastfeed for as long as SHE wants to - whether that's not at all, 1 day, 6 months or 6 years. I am actually fuming at the thought of taking choice about this off the only people it applies to. I feed my 2 year o;ld. Deal with it and make your own choices.
Why should women stop feeding to make other women start?????? Answe that please because I am furious at the thought!

Stealth, these ladies will not answer questions in a sensible way...so I wouldn't hold your breath for an answer

"when a kid's eating 3 meals a day and drinking from a cup is it really necessary to be sitting in cafes cradling a 3 year old and breastfeeding it?"
I would answer Yes. It is necessary because my daughter was either tired, hungry, upset, ill, too warm, too cold, thirsty, feeling sad or needed the comfort. She will also of been offered a cup of juice and a sandwich first. Some days she needs milk as well.

Also if
"it was a clearly,very ill advised joke that i now am too frightened to qualify by trying to explain it"

You could try stopping the joke instead of continuing to throw insults around. Very easy just type the main points to your post and take out all the description words about the mothers out.

I am genuinely a bit baffled as to why someone would need to go to a bf support group if they had already been doing it successfully for two years with the same child. Surely that would indicate thet already knew what they were doing??

Babies, the last questions you asked were silly and clearly meant you hadn't listened or understood sleepless main point. Ask a silly question, get a silly answer!
Stealth: I've never said anyone should stop to make another start, that would be crazy. I amend slightly:
You do what you like SPB, but surely you'd prefer for ALL Mums to choose to BF for at least 6 months than fight your own personal cause to choose to continue til beyond 2?
You want to do what you like without being criticised, don't we all? Sleepless is out there trying to encourage young Mums to BF I admire her for that and may just be inspired to do the same. She clearly has an understanding for the feelings of these non middle class young Mums and I doubt she cares if she offends a few successful BF Mums on the internet along the way. She has friends who BF toddlers so she clearly has enough tact to not offend them in real life so I doubt she needs to retrain in her voluntary role.

BoffinMum,
There are many reasons a mother of a nursing toddler might attend a support group.

1. Social reasons.
2. Support for toddler. Toddler nurses is not problem free.
3. Support for new baby. Mum could be tandem feeding toddler and baby.
4. Peer Supporter. Some mums are supporters