Breast and bottle feeding query

[mum2b1]

Hi

I am planning to breast feed my first baby (due end of July) but I also want to express so that my husband can help with the feeding/ bond etc.
How long should I wait before introducing the bottle (containing breast milk).
My NCT teacher says 3 weeks but that seems a long time and it seems to me that the longer we wait the more confusing it will be for the baby.
Surely if we do it earlier say after about a week and a half the baby will be more likely to take to both and not really have a preference...

any suggestions?
Has anyone else tried this successfully?

i found the avent ones a bit pants though as i kept putting them in upside down (holes pointing downwards) in fog of post natal tiredness. I would go for the simpler versions without holes

littlepig, they're breast shells - my mothercare link takes you straight to them

breast shells

MrUmble, looking forward to seeing you causing more thought provoking debate elsewhere on mumsnet.

mum2b1 please stay, MN has so much to offer.

Thanks ladies.
This is one of the things I never looked into much before ds came along as I got a recommendation for LilyPadz, which looked good but which I don't really like.

Mum2B1 - this is what is great about MN and why you shouldn't give up so soon!

This discover has made my day
(Maybe my bedroom won't smell of leaked milk so much now!)

(littlepig, they only work when you're upright...)

large portion of MNs remembers waking up in the middle of night covered in milk!

Been out all morning and just back to see how this thread has progressed. It is a shame Mum2b1 that you feel we have been aggressive and hostile - there is a wealth of knowledge and experience on MN which can help any parent through the minefield that is parenting. I hope you'll be back.

MrU - it is a shame you didn't feel you could share your own personal experiences of your family with regards bf and expressing, as I note that many of the women on here have done. It might have helped to understand the context - for example if your SO started expressing well into the bf relationship... or even if she started very early - that would have, I'm sure, been interesting for the OP to hear. Its a shame you seem to have viewed this thread as a 'sport' - I know debate often arises when emotions run high on forums like this, but a simple query asking for help/information/support - was that really the place to hone your debating skills?

I shall now follow suit and let this thread die a death.

"What would have been the harm in discussing it? "

probably not. but the discussion would have been as relevant as teaching a pig to sing.

Mum2b1, MN can be, shall we say, rubost when it comes to discussions. there are lots of very intelligent and well informed posters on here, some of whom are also up for a good ruck from time to time.

for newbies, it can be very daunting. I suspect you are new?

nothing here has been personal to you.

should you stay on a while and observe, you will find that MN also has big warm shoulders to lean on, (though we don't generally do ((((hugz))) ).

----------

"MrU - it is a shame you didn't feel you could share your own personal experiences of your family with regards bf and expressing"

I am wondering about that too. could it be that he is the fount of knowledge that some still pg parents / non-parents think they are. nothing like having a baby to 'umble that sort being.

it reminds me of the quote that goes something like this:
teenagers! tired of being told what to do? not getting your way? having boring parents? etc.

then find a job, move out, get your own flat and take control over your destiny.
while you still know everything.

but then again, that is me just being a screaming banshee so I ought to shut up.

Mum2b1, MN can be, shall we say, rubost when it comes to discussions. there are lots of very intelligent and well informed posters on here, some of whom are also up for a good ruck from time to time.

But 5 mins later, on another thread, 2 'antagonists' can be supporting each other or someone else, no hard feelings or whiff or a ruck 2 threads before. it is relationship that goes beyond, having to be nice to each other. people type and post fast so diplomacy falls by the wayside many times.

Wow, a lot has happened since I last looked!

I just want to add, whilst I read the rest of the thread that I don't see anything more important than giving my daughter breastmilk an maintaining the ability so that I can continue to breastfeed her was more important than giving anyone else (even her dad) ANOTHER way to bond. Ultimately it's not the fact he would be feeding her that would help him bond with her, it's the cuddle time and physical closeness. It is perfectly possible for him to be able to have cuddle time and physical closeness without him having a bottle in his hand. He can do kangaroo care with her, co-sleep, co-bath, play, cuddle, change nappies... When TD is around I don't get a look in on bonding! If I didn't nurse her I wouldn't have any look in at all

I'm not sure what has and hasn't been said on here as I can't be bothered reading all the posts. Just wanted to respond to the OP with my personal experiences...

DS was a nightmare. I expressed for a break from about 2 weeks and to give DH a shot too. DH admitted that he liked helping me out, but the novelty wore off after a while . I found that I couldn't just go to bed as DS was still crying etc (had colic) and that he generally needed my boobs to comfort him. Looking back, I can't think what the upsides were to expressing. It was tying, took me loads of sessions to get enough for a bottle (and eventually, at 7 months I couldn't and he wouldn't have an evening feed from me), had to sterilise etc, generally had to be on standby for settling and to top up with boobs if required. It also gave me an awful oversupply, which was possibly part of DSs colic.

With DD I decided I wouldn't be so worried about expressing and DH agreed that he was VERY happy for me to feed and him to look after DS or whatever. We introduced a bottle at a couple of weeks old, just with occasional expressed milk (every 2 or 3 days) so she'd be used to it. She never did take that bottle. No amounts of teats and perseverance helped.

I guess what I'm saying is don't set yourself up for it being a great success. It can be a lot more bother than it's worth. Also, from a successful bf point of view, don't express too early so you don't screw up supply and watch for nipple confusion if offering a bottle early.

?BUT it would be lovely if he could give the baby all that the mum does.?

Oh yes! I would love for it to be TD that has the scar and pain or at least share in it (this reminds me of Sliders where they met a world that transplanted the baby into dad at a certain point of pregnancy) unfortunately it?s only my body that can make her and I?m the one living with the pain of her leaving it at great speed.

?Through out this "discussion" it has become apparent is that some of you seem to have unilaterally come to conclusions regarding the involvement of your husbands.

?I'm not sure if its the result of wanting to remain as the center of attention, or that your husbands can't be bothered, but whatever the underlying cause youve then come up with reasons, research and facts to support this dubious position. Which removes the responsibility from a disinterested partner.?

My partner is involved totally, he does everything he can for Tink when he is at home, the one thing he doesn?t (didn?t) do is put the nursing relationship at risk. They are well bonded and since she was weaned he gets up with her after her morning feed to give her breakfast. I don?t want to be centre of attention, I just know how hard it can be to nurse a baby, to get it established, how skipping feeds can affect your supply and leave you in pain, how it?s a gamble introducing a bottle. I feel that the ability to continue to nurse my daughter was far more important than anything else and if it gets me out of changing and washing nappies in some ways I think he probably did more for her because between feeds when he was home, I?d rest.

Not to mention that milk is made specially to order ? ie not just that it isn?t there till it?s needed, but it actually provides exactly what baby needs at that particular time.

Personally I don?t believe that MrsUmble breastfed hence why her husband can?t understand the difference.

witchandchips ?can i give a bit of a feminist twist to this argument.?

Well said! Or as I like to say ?we have equality in our inequality?

?Yes yes, I am an arse for questioning that a mother should make a decision that could affect the relationship between a father and child.?

If dad needs to feed to have a relationship with his child then obviously ?he can?t be bothered? to be involved in other areas of raising a child.

love2sleep ?As long as this would constitute "a discussion"?

Brilliant!

mum2b1, don't go! MN is actually a fantastic support group for bfing mothers ( and ffing mothers too if it doesn't work out!) but we can be an argumentative bunch!
Just a point on nipple confusion. I don't think there is ever any confusion on the part of the baby, they usually figure out pretty quickly what they prefer!
My ds3 was born at 32 weeks, was in SCBU and was given a bottle of EBM before he was fed directly from the breast. When we got home, I wanted to redress the balance a little and mostly just breastfed him but he did get a bi-weekly bottle of EBM from MIL while dh and I went out or while I went to ds2's school to deal with issues he had.

He took the bottle fine for months and then one day just refused point-blank to take it! And it was a hell of a job to get him to take it again. Now, since then I have watched MIL bottlefeed other babies and she does seem too forceful, in that when they turn their heads away, she follows their mouth with the bottle and pushes it back in, Ds3 is very stubborn by nature and may have taken against the bottle because of that. But it's no guarantee that giving a baby an early bottle will pave the way for them taking it when they are older and neither is the converse true. Ds1 and ds2 were rarely given bottles at that age but easily switched between breast and bottle when I went back to work.

Am I a 'screaming banshee'????

I do hope so

mum2b1: please don't go. No one has been horrible to you (or in fact to MrU, despite the temptation , and I do wish he would share some of his personal situation and experience with us) - debates on mumsnet can be robust, and no one has said or done anything worth apologising for. If it's a bit too robust for you, then other talkboards are available that are fully of fluffy kittens and hugs

mum2b1, don't go to a fluffy site, please! You're not allowed to swear on those!

Do you think we could have quotes where mothers have said they didn't discuss it with their partner? Also quotes from screaming banchees?

tiktok
She may be a banshee but she gives the best bfing advice on MN!

owoooooooooooooo!!
does that count as being a banshee Tinksmum?

chip - that pic is astonishingly like me

Hey - I am someone who never even thought to discuss this issue with my dh, and he never thought to discuss it with me (I have just asked him). He has given the odd bottle of ebm for convenience sake - it's a bit insulting to state that somehow he, or the dc, have missed out on an 'important bonding opportunity' by not doing it right at the start or as some sort of ritualistic sharing thing.

It's even more insulting to say that I have somehow carved out a territory and placed an electric fence around it in order to preserve my matriarchal monopoly on feeding (just to mix a whole load of metaphors in my banshee-like way).

Nice pic

I want MrUmble to back up his points about banshees and men being left out cause I didn't see any that have or anyone screaming.

I also never had "the discussion" with my DH. I wasn't trying to exclude him, but until he can lactate then there isn't any discussion. My boobs, my decision on whether or not to express. I certainly wouldn't be putting myself out for the sake of him wanting to give a bottle. If that sounds like me being unreasonable, I don't car . As I said earlier I did express for DS but that was because I thought it would be better for ME to do that. DH has certainly bonded well with both our children. Actually, when he's home, all I do is feeding of DD. Pretty much everything else is his job and his 'special time' and experience! Including dirty nappies

I don't think my partner would have asked me after everything we've been through. Tink was 31 weeks (as has been said often) and obviously too young to breastfeed so I had to express to give her food into her nose. It took 10 days for me to get more than a couple of drops a time and then another week until I was able to supply all her feeds and that was pumping every 4 hours for 15-30 mins a side. I tried to continue pumping after we came home but I had no desire or motivation to, it reminded me of all the hard times we'd been through and once she was established on the breast I thought my pumping days were behind me.

Tink is the youngest of three on her dad's side, all breastfed. TD knew how to bond with his children without giving a feed and how difficult it is to supplement feeds or pump. He is a very understanding man and has a great relationship with all three of his children, in fact he does with our nieces and nephews, they all have a really good bond with him and he hasn't bottlefed many.

Hijack:
Tink are where are the fabric shops in Nottingham again? Will be there tomorrow and would love a nose in if it is not too awkward. I don't know Notts at all. dh is taking dd to the Test match all day so I have a full day shopping to myself.