Breast and bottle feeding query

[mum2b1]

Hi

I am planning to breast feed my first baby (due end of July) but I also want to express so that my husband can help with the feeding/ bond etc.
How long should I wait before introducing the bottle (containing breast milk).
My NCT teacher says 3 weeks but that seems a long time and it seems to me that the longer we wait the more confusing it will be for the baby.
Surely if we do it earlier say after about a week and a half the baby will be more likely to take to both and not really have a preference...

any suggestions?
Has anyone else tried this successfully?

"Get over it, fathers can and should feed their kids".

Assuming it refers to babies on a milk-only diet, I disagree with that opinion, which is couched in bullying language with no justification for the sentiment it expresses.

Xpost, Titty!

rofl at new mothers being all 'me me me' and not wanting to waste their precious leisure time expressing.

MrUmble, I think it'd help your case if you told us a bit about you and your dc. How old are they? How often do they have EBM? Are you a SAHD?

this one will run and run
MrUmble you betray a serious attitudinal problem with exclusive breastfeeding (the clue's in the name) so despite all the reams and reams of research to which we could direct you and have quoted (believe it or not, if you choose to breastfeed longer than about 3 months you have to be good at justifying yourself to the ignorant) you have in no way explained or justified your position other than to attack 'women' for being selfish and having poor relationships if they don't agree with you .I very much wonder why you are persisitng with this, there seems to be a lot of hostility towards non-expressing women in your posts, which have been veering into the realms of utter misogyny .Might i ask if your SO refused to allow you your 'bonding' and you feel you fall short as a result?

Oppps... I posted this on the wrong thread, but here it is anyway

What a brilliant debate!

MrUmble, you're certainly fighting your corner, however I think that you're not really comprehending the whole breast feeding process and how important it is to get it right.

None the less I think its brilliant that you are taking an interest enough to continue arguing your point. I can't even get my DH to read mumsnet.

No. I get it now. MrU is right!

We should "Relinquish the monopoly" on feeding newborns. We should also "Relinquish the monopoly" on pregnancy and allow our partners to wear fake bumps for 9 months. Perhaps we should also "Relinquish the monopoly" on childbirth and insist that the government funds some research into a device that can simulate labour. Without these interventions the fathers simply cannot be expected to bond with their babies. No amount of cosy manly cuddles will ever make up for what they are missing out on.

and in return should we expect men to 'reliquish the responsibilty' for conception and make with the turkey basters?

sorry, relinquish the monopoly on conception

When you present your own prejudices and opinions as fact, that's when I will attack posters.

If your SO wants to be involved in feeding why don't you stop talking for a minute and listen to why their asking, dont just say NO because some genius on mumsnet gave you a link to some research. If your SO isn't asking, the question is why?

Either way, if anyone takes anything away from this discussion let it be this:

Dad not feeding is not something that should be assumed. It is something that should be discussed. Even if the eventual outcome is not to feed, the Dad must be involved equally and understand that decision.

mrUmble, in my 'umble opinion, you are an arse.

my dh, who never posts on MN for his (funny) chauvanistic reason, would agree wholeheartedly.

he would do anything in the world for his daughter and his wife. and he has learnt that sometimes that includes giving over any desire to control and let his dd or dw lead.

Mila, OP: the women who post here do not have disinterested husbands who think that feeding is a hassle. They are men who have learnt through observation and reflection that feeding a baby from a bottle does not equate to a necessary building block to bonding.

DH once said that watching dd's birth was observing something happening to someone else. He felt no connection to the event. Probably because I had about 10 people rushing around the room as I was in danger of having an eclamptic fit while she was being delivered so he had to sit out of the way.

he said at sometime later, he doesn't know when, he went from being a bystander of an event to having his dd being the most precious thing in his life and her birth being the most important defining moment for him.

Funnily enough, except for some cack-handed attempts by us to get her to 'take a night feed from daddy so I could erm, sleep longer', he has never bottle fed her. He does things with her normally only a daddy is better at doing (like carrying her in a rucksack for 16 miles across the Lake District or roughhousing on the bed at night) - and lots of things a mummy can do too.

disinterested daddy? nah. his reward for supporting my bfing is that he sleeps in and let me do all the feeds.

Oh, we coslept till dd decided to leave our bed so that made the 'night feeds' much simpler and easier for all. every one got the most sleep possible. We only did this after we gave up our cackhanded attempts of him giving her a bottle feed of ebm which optimised nothing for anyone.

Yes MrsBadger, you should make do with a turkey baster, if thats what floats your boat.

"'reliquish the responsibilty' for conception and make with the turkey basters?"

Now you're talking

Actually - haven't they recently made some advances with producing embryos from a women's egg alone, using cloning techniques?

Soon we won't even need the turkey basters!

Or the MrUmbles of this world.

(....... wanders off to put KD Lang CD on while scratching fat backside through tatty army surplus trousers)

Have just joined this thread and am fascinated...

It has been suggested that MrU is being (wilfully) misinterpreted... is the last post a reasonable summary of what you are trying to say?

That there is no problem/ difficulty/ risk associated with expressing?
That mothers who don't are simply protecting a monopoly on their baby?
That anyone who says otherwise is probably trying to hide some underlying insecurity?
That, therefore, they should epress for their husbands to feed the baby, whatever the difficulty, as it is his right to have a shot and 'get over it'?

If not, please summarise for us new-comers.

the point is - our SO's aren't asking, precisely because we have had the discussion,SO's understand the mechanics and so the decision has been made in unison,with the benefit of knowledge and in some cases with hindsight. You seem determined to refute that and do not appear interested in reading the evidence needed to come to an informed decision.I might add that your SO's feelings are a big part of the decision making-but as a mere female, maybe she should bow to your manliness?

MrU - I wholeheartly agree with this bit of what you say:

"Dad not feeding is not something that should be assumed. It is something that should be discussed. Even if the eventual outcome is not to feed, the Dad must be involved equally and understand that decision."

Yes yes, I am an arse for questioning that a mother should make a decision that could affect the relationship between a father and child.

If you were no so blinded by your own beliefs you'd be able to see that Ive presented a balanced argument, which you might not agree with, but should certain accept has a right to exist.

As for the women not having disinterested DH, I'm sure some don't. Just as I am sure that some DH have been cowed into submission by the shrieking banshees that some posters appear to embody.

jamila169 and love2sleep,

that has been my central point all along

That its a joint decision that should be discussed, irrespective of the final outcome.

Little pig... heres what Im saying

That there is no problem/ difficulty/ risk associated with expressing?

Hell no. There is plenty of all of those things associated with expressing.

That mothers who don't are simply protecting a monopoly on their baby?

Nope.

That anyone who says otherwise is probably trying to hide some underlying insecurity?

Nope.

That, therefore, they should epress for their husbands to feed the baby, whatever the difficulty, as it is his right to have a shot and 'get over it'?

NOPE!

The summary is:

"Dad not feeding is not something that should be assumed. It is something that should be discussed. Even if the eventual outcome is not to feed, the Dad must be involved equally and understand that decision."

Nobody is saying that it shouldn't be a joint decision but merely pointing out some problems with expressing that will be common across most families

^Im not saying that Dads that dont feed wont bond, what I am saying is that dont undermine the role of a father, mums shouldnt have an assumed monopoly on feeding.

Its up to personal choice, some dads dont want to do it. Personally I think its one of the strongest bonding opportunities during the first few months.^

your words
page one
some of us have been here from the beginning

Mr U.
In the ideal world all couples would of course have a balanced reasoned discussion about the pros and cons of expressing and the final decision would be acceptable to all. However my memories of pregnancy and the first few months with a baby suggest that there is very little reasoned discussion about anything. New mums are hormonal, exhasuted and often very insecure about feeding issues (and new dads are not exactly in peak condition either). So I think we should take heed of the expert advice of the bf counsellors who have posted here and be wary of placing any more pressure on new mums to do something that can often (IME) be a time-consuming, frustrating and ultimately negative experience.

jamilia169... and some of us are not so opinionated that we are incapable of modify our opinions.

Try it, you might like it.

From page 2, Jamilia169 and MrsBadger:

Regarding mothers 'allowing' fathers to feed.

"Jamilia uses the right term .."

"Fathers actually bond pretty well without the mothers having to go to extra effort to 'allow' it. "

Use of the word allow does not indicate a joint decision, rather a unilateral one.

A modified opionion?

Now you have restored my faith in human nature