Breast and bottle feeding query

[mum2b1]

Hi

I am planning to breast feed my first baby (due end of July) but I also want to express so that my husband can help with the feeding/ bond etc.
How long should I wait before introducing the bottle (containing breast milk).
My NCT teacher says 3 weeks but that seems a long time and it seems to me that the longer we wait the more confusing it will be for the baby.
Surely if we do it earlier say after about a week and a half the baby will be more likely to take to both and not really have a preference...

any suggestions?
Has anyone else tried this successfully?

MrUmble - you are welcome to your opinions of course. I can assure you that I don't bf to enshrine my role as a mother. I bf because myself and my husband decided it was the optimum way to feed our daughter, and when she was born, despite initial difficulties, we persevered and are all happy with our decision. My dd is now 18 months old, still bf, still happily attached to both Mum and Dad. I did not return to work early, and myself and my husband are more than happy with our childcare choices. Do you understand anything about the physiology of bf? Do you understand how the body makes milk in response to feeding cues, and how expressing too early can cause confusion, for the mother and for the baby (unless perhaps cup-fed?). I asked how early your SO started expressing? As I've said in previous posts, this is an emotive issue for those involved in bf their lo's - not because they have 'issues' - but because they prioritise feeding their child over other, less important issues, such as the assumed 'niceness' of Dad being involved in feeding.

"Its obvious that there is a lot of fear mongering going on here, "oh no, Ill mess up the bf schedule" etc etc."

Lol at you mrmumble - experienced bf mums here and those of us who are in regular contact with other new breastfeeding mums in RL will find this comment very telling. The concerns that have been raised about expressing are nothing to do with bf 'schedules' but with basic breastfeeding physiology. Someone needs to explain this to you because you're obviously very ignorant about it. 90% of women in the UK give up bf before they want to. Mastitis and breast rejection are major problems for new mums trying to mix breast and bottle - expressing and giving bottles can and does increase the risk of both these things. If you had any knowledge or experience of these things outside of your own narrow frame of reference you'd understand this.

Note: in a bottlefeeding culture women feed to a schedule usually every 3 or 4 hours.

In cultures where unselfconscious, successful breastfeeding is the social norm women feed on demand and not to a schedule. They watch their baby, not the clock. They know their baby needs a feed when they hear him or her cry, or observe their feeding cues (rooting, putting fist to mouth, mouthing) and as if by some miracle her breasts fill with milk...... It's called 'baby led feeding'.

"I cant help wondering if there is a bigger underlying issue. Some of the posters seem to use BF as the main definition of being a mother, and so feel justified excluding husbands."

Go on then - justify that silly statement with specific references to actual comments people have made on this thread.

"I suspect the reason for this is because they are worried that other aspects of motherhood, maybe they are returning to work early or something else. So somehow feel that by ensuring they are the only one that can feed enshrines their role as mother, no matter what the other shortcomings"

Sorry - the point you're making here is that women value breastfeeding because they think it validates them as mothers, even when they're actually quite crap at it ('no matter what the other shortcomings')?

Breast envy. I rest my case.

Here here MilaMae!!

I expect more women wish their husbands would take such an interest!

What I think would be terrible would be if a husband did want to take part in feeding and for his wife to react as some of the posters have reacted.. snarling "MINE ALL MINE".

yeah, because we all snarl just like that

happynappies... if you and your husband discussed it and made a joint decision, then that is brilliant, and in my opinion, the right way to go about things.

Where I've had issue is where people have reacted with disgust and horror at the thought of a father feeding his baby.

[sigh]
we haven't reacted with disgust and horror, we're just wary of something that creates a lot of work for the mother with little or no benefit to mother, father or child.

In your opinion Mrs Badger....

no, in my experience.

when the baby is here let us know how, in your experience, it goes.

and when MrUmble bfs he can let us know how, in his experience, it goes too .

Grrr!

DH takes an amazing amount of interest. He's a wonderful, loving and attentive father. DS adores him.

DS does not adore being bottle fed. He'll put up with it, but he clearly does not enjoy it.

And it is a hassle for me, much more than DH, and he appreciates that I have enough demands on my time.

I have had to express and bottle feed because I am returning to work early (only ~4 hours a week, but he does generally want a bit of milk) - so how am I trying to keep breastfeeding just to keep DS to myself / make myself feel better (by the way, I know I am the best mum I can be, so no need for that)

I can just imagine a scenario where MrUmble (or other random uneducated man - and I'm not saying that all men are uneducated!) wants to give a bottle to "bond", and the poor woman is one of those people that just doesn't express well, so they have to pump for twice as long (or more) to get the milk as their DC would feed, just so their DP "gets a turn".

FGS, we make the milk, we have the boobs - why introduce something artificial into the equation if you don't need to? I guess the women that don't understand posts like mine were either lucky enough to find expressing fairly easy and didn't have any of the resulting possible problems - or haven't tried it yet!

Now I shall try to walk away from this conversation!

I think you have all missed the point Mr Umble has been trying to make....

mum2b - go to this link read the articles then see how you feel I'd tell you too mrUmble if i thought it would make a blind bit of difference

was MrUmble's point that it is desirable for the father to be able to feed the baby if he wants to?
If so we have understood but we just don't all agree with him.

This isnt the point he is making.

These articles are great and all but I think he is saying something you are all 'trying' NOT to understand.

can i give a bit of a feminist twist to this argument.
women + men are biologically different, women have mure endurance, men are physically stronger, men can pee standing up, women can make milk

for centuries these small physical differences have been used to justify differences in treatment and expectations about their roles and characters

solution 1: do you use technology to reduce these physical differences (i.e. expressing)
solution 2: do you realise that the areas of different are small do not by themselves effect other aspect of relationships such as between a parent and his/her child

Think what lots of us are saying is solution 2 is easier

What an interesting thread!

It had never occurred to me that the decision to express or not to express could be such an emotive one. I expressed on the occasions when it made my life simpler or when it was not possible for me to BF. In most cases BF was the easier option so it was really only when I went back to work that the "dairy farming" started. DH enjoyed giving the boys EBM but would never have suggested that I do it for his sake. New mums have quite enough on their plate without feeling pressure to express.

Yes love2sleep
I agree

w&c - what a great post!

So now I'm uneducated.. charming as always ladies.

Well I'm sorry that it places demands on your time, or that its a hassle for you. There you go, placing yourselves in the center of the universe again.

Get over it, fathers can and should feed their kids. Relinquish the monopoly and realise how important it is.

If your husband has no desire to do so and is totally uninterested, then you have my sympathies, but dont dare criticise or pedal fear to mothers who are in realtionships that support this.

Your own failings will not be hidden by research or experience.

thanks

There is nothing wrong with wanting to bond with the baby but as tittybangbang says, MrUmble possibly doesn't "get" the way bfing works, that expressing isn't always easy, and that the bfing relationship is essentially mainly between the mother and child.
In fairness to MrUmble , I will say that my ds1 really didn't see the point of my dh's existence until the day he gave him a bottle. ds1 was 3 months old at that point.Before that, most of the smiles were reserved for me. Dh gave him a bottle, later that day, ds1 caught sight of dh and his little face just lit up with the most beautiful smile! I did momentarily feel slightly betrayed!
BUT, and dh would admit this: he is not a terribly "hand-on" Dad and had hardly changed a nappy, and would have felt embarrassed carrying ds1 in a sling. I think if he had done some of those things ds1 would have bonded with him sooner.
Some women cannot express even though they can bf perfectly well, some babies will refuse the breast after having a bottle, some babies will refuse to take a bottle at all so I do think it's better not to rely on feeding as a way of bonding.
Also, it is best to bear in mind that a new Mum can be on an emotional rollercoaster and a Dad trying to muscle in on the bfing relationship can be hard to take. My friend has never quite forgiven her dh for going out and buying a steriliser and bottles when her ds at 6 weeks was having a growth spurt and was feeding all day. It was the beginning of the end of bfing for her and she still feels resentful.

MrU
Do I count as "placing myself in the centre of the universe"? There was me thinking that DH and I were working as a team to do the best for our children. I better as breasfeeding ds2 than he is. He is better at baking cakes with ds1 than I am. I don't see the point in making work for ourselves.

cross posts MrUmble but actually demands on your time when you have had a baby crying all day, the house is a tip and you are still unshowered and in your dressing-gown at 3pm can be the final straw! And that is the reality for a lot of new Mums.

.. and DH is better at typing

"fathers can and should feed their kids"

And your evidence for this is.......?

"dont dare criticise or pedal fear to mothers who are in realtionships that support this"

And your special knowledge of breastfeeding and issues surrounding expressing comes from.... where?

Your views have been challenged here by a breastfeeding counsellor who has professional qualifications backed up by years of study, and of experience in supporting new mothers, as well as bf peer supporters and mothers like myself who've got years of breastfeeding and expressing experience.

I find it very sad and rather scary that you take so little notice of people who know so much more about breastfeeding than you do and who are vastly more experienced in supporting families with new babies.