Why can't we just all breatsfeed?

[pupuce]

Seeing the recent debates on breastfeeding, I didn't want to take part in the discussion as I didn't feel I could add to the debate but I was reading this and thought.... why is it that so many women who ended up bottlefeeding have stories of "not enough milk", "baby not thriving", etc.... so we have a BF rate in this country of barely 1 in 2 babies breastfed after 1 week (that's not impressive if you do know that breast is best)... why is it that the Swedes have 98%....
I am sure it's a combination of factors.... but it does mean that too many people in this country have a "wrong reason" for not BF.... surely many women have not enough information about milk production to feel that they truly didn't have enough milk....

OK - am I starting world war 3 ??? hope not

I somehow suspect ths thread may end up just going the way of the others Pupuce

Some people just don't want to breast feed I guess and some people just find that they can't. Whatever their reason (and IMO there is no wrong reason - if someone feels a certain way then that it a valid reason for them) mums should be allowed to go about their own decision without the grief from other mums, health professionals, media and so on.

Yes, breast may be "best" for a baby BUT it is isn;t always possible or even desirable. And no mum should be miserable just because of the way they choose to feed. A baby needs a happy and healthy mummy, much more than he or she needs breast milk IMO.

I breast fed....for various reasons it didn't work out and wasn't what was right for me and my baby... at 6 weeks I moved full time to bottle feeding. Said baby is now a happy and healthy 2.5yo who is thriving in every way possible. It hasn'tharmed her. I haven't damaged in some way. And I have my own reasons for changing to botle feeding - they are my reasons and they are my own valid reasons.

IMO there can't be any "wrong reasons" - every mum should allowed to make their own choices.

Think that possibly not the best choice of thread title pupuce, given the incendiary nature of the subject atm!

anyway - here's my tuppernorth

bfing for me and DS was a sorry saga - 8 days in hospital after birth (ventouse and pethidine - sleepy baby!), with DS under the lights for half of those, lots and lots of 60 ml formula top ups. discharged, then a week at home, exclusive bfing. then DS back in hospital with jaundice and dehydration. my confidence was completely knocked by this, I intended to do lots of expressing but was too exhausted to do so.

DS for the first 4 to 5 months was a difficult feeder. i suspect reflux that wasn't picked up on by anyone as he did gain weight. he was sick (quite projectilely) up to 3 times per day, and would have between 5 - 8 bottles a day, often taking over an hour per bottle. at his very quickest, most starving he would take a bottle in 25 minutes. It was a running joke among friends/close family that if they phoned I would have a bottle in my hand, and be in the middle of feeding him.

i don't seriously think that i didn't have enough milk, as could express plenty. but I think that DS was a difficult feeder, so I think it would have been very difficult for me to establish successful bfing. i don't say it would have been 100% impossible for me to bf him, but I think it would have taken a hell of a lot of long term breast feeding counsellor support.

I think that the difficulty with this type of thread is that people who made the decision to bottlefeed from the start are confident in their decision; the people most likely to be affected by this type of thread are the people like me who gave up breastfeeding due to tremendous difficulties with it, and feel guilty about giving it up.

yes but swedish mothers and babies are no different physiologically to english mothers and babies so why are the swedish mothers' choices so different?

i think that's the question, right, pupuce?

nice to see you here again btw

not having a go at you hb or any other bottlefeeder btw, but i think it is a very valid question.

Swedish mums are more encouraged to stay at home with their babies, and not work. BF'ing can be seriously hampered when mums are back to work when the baby is just 3 months and sometimes younger. Not sure if it means anything, but could do?

Message withdrawn

SQ - no worries; I know that my decision was the right decision for me and my little girl. It's a long time since I felt I had to justify my decision.

Pupuce, I wonder this too. It surely cannot be that one nation can have 98% of women who can breastfeed and another has 70 or 60% who can do it. I think it's to do with a lot of things - not enough decent support, not enough information, a big drive to push formula in the 60s and 70s so that women who are becoming mums now have mothers who didn't breastfeed and just repeat all the advertising spiel they heard when their babies were young.

A lot of it is cultural influence, I'm sure. I do wonder how many women would feel revulsed by the thought of putting a baby to their breast if they lived in a country where the breastfeeding rate was 98% though - and that's a genuine query, not a flippant getting-at-people point!

Hope I've not been incendiary here - DS has just woken up and I wanted to finish the post, so no chance to reread and check for flammable bits!

But to a degree this is my point, there are BF counsellors who would be happy to help... I have seen in my own town women given wrong info and when I turned up (as I had been called0 was able to re-establish BF... it is often not as difficult as it might appear... I see this as a doula too..... several of my clients have said they would probably had given up if they hadn't been encouraged, informed,.... but the key point is : they did persevere and they loved it (once they over came their difficulties).
I realise some might feel these words will make them feel bad about stopping BF (and I don't mean to do that.... promise) but very often - support from a BF counsellor or a good HP will make a massive difference.

I am just sadded to see our BF rates when compared to Sweden for example.

My only problem with such threads is that it can make life really unpleasant for mums who can't bf their children even if they want too. They are still made to feel guilty over it, which I feel is just so unfair.

Possibly the continentals feel more freer with their bodies than we do, and are educated that breasts aren't anything to feel embarrassed about. I fed for 6 months with DD1 but ended up with PND as a result of going up to a K cup (I am naturally a size 10/12 frame, so its impossible to disguise the size of my knockers), and not being able to have a conversation with anyone male or female without them either referring to my breasts or staring blatantly at them. Second time round I lasted 7 weeks due to huge knockers, baby who wouldn't open her mouth (I had the BF counsellor practically living with us), bleeding, blistering and three bouts of bed-ridden mastitis!!!

But pupuce - that support is not always readily available; it often has to be sought actively my the mum herself. And TB a lot of new mums haven't got the time to sit down, let alone go hunting for phone numbers, etc.

And I still believe that it is ultimately the mum's choice, no one elses.

I don't agree with the job issue..... don't get me wrong I applaud Sweden for that but 1 in 2 babies BF at 1 week has little to do with work.... at 3 or 4 months it's another issue.

I don't think that even the most hardcore (!) breastfeeder would have a go at someone who tried to breastfeed but wasn't able to. Certainly isn't the case here, and i have read most of what has been written these past few days.

Message withdrawn

Hulababy - Mears once made a very valid point.... no one can make you feel guilty - you choose to feel guilty. We choose our feelings.
But I know what you mean

But I don't think that is true Pupuce Society, people, media etc. do make you feel guilty. Yes, I know you choose your own emotions to an extent. But who's emotions are not swayed by outside influences???

What about an unrealistic expectation from midwives, doctors, HV and other peri natal profesionals on your ability that nature would teach you how to do it?

Most of the people who I know have stoped breastfeeding at an early age mentioned about feeling that the only advice given was to keep trying rather than any practical advice that could make a difference. And for some of them them the "keep trying" route has mean leaving the baby to dehidrate before offering proper support to the mother (or sometimes not even then), deal with the mother as if she was stupid because she claims the baby has not gained 100 grams in 2 months, but well... if you are a mother sometimes you don't feel that continue trying is convenient for the immediate interests of the baby. After you have seen your baby conected to tubes at hospital or suffering an operation to sort up his reflux, the only thing you want is to cause the least disruption to the poor mite even if that means stoping breast feeding. Not the best solution but many times people who want has not been able to for lack of asurance or practical advice.

Besides, the clain that all the mothers can breastfeed and all the babies are programmed to do it properly is also over rated. We now se many mothers giving a bottle to their children, in the days before formula it was common to see many babies feed with other things and ... children dying during babyhood were not rare.

I guess I have contributed with a bit of an incendiary, post so I'm out of here before the thread caughts fire.

PS. Breastfeeding counsellors are available in this country, but unknown in many others.

But why would one feel guilty though ???? Am exploring emotions... is it because you know you could have, should have, reasons you didn't are becasue you gave up too quickly ? I relaly wonder ???? If you had a good reason to stop, why would you feel guilty? Or is it just daft me who doesn't get it

BTW - I have friends who didn't BF and one of my clients didn't either - that is THEIR choice and I totaally respected that.

I think also people's attitudes to women who breastfeed and facilities in this country are pretty poor. I remember people being horrified because I was feeding DD1 in a restaurant. At the end of the day, you wouldn't sit in a toilet and eat a sandwich, so why expect a baby to have their milk in a toilet. Mums aren't really given the encouragement by society that they could be.

Why feel guilty? Which, BTW, I don't - I know I made the right decision; I took a couple of weeks deciding first. Because we have it rammed down our throats throughtout and after pg that breast is best and if we don't breast feed then we are depriving, and possibly causing problems for, our much loved and adored baby. In many antenatal classes HV and MW won't even discuss bottle feeding at all.

mymmytosteven - we have discussed the attitude in the past.... some of us have encountered looks and comments and others have never.... I actually think Britain is not bad at all.... compared to France where BF rate is even lower anyway.

Because so many people just assume that you are a pimp and you have not tried enough? I have expressed for several weeks trying to rise the production of milk and then I had the visit of one breastfeeding terrorist who only said, Oh but I have breastfeed DS until he was 1 yr old! and I got thrush! Brave of her ut it made me feel rubish. Besides, every single improvement your baby makes over breastfeeding babies is diminished by many BF mothers with comments like Oh yes, all formula babies do that!

-disconect, disconect, disconect

sorry I meant mummytummy