Why can't we just all breatsfeed?

[pupuce]

Seeing the recent debates on breastfeeding, I didn't want to take part in the discussion as I didn't feel I could add to the debate but I was reading this and thought.... why is it that so many women who ended up bottlefeeding have stories of "not enough milk", "baby not thriving", etc.... so we have a BF rate in this country of barely 1 in 2 babies breastfed after 1 week (that's not impressive if you do know that breast is best)... why is it that the Swedes have 98%....
I am sure it's a combination of factors.... but it does mean that too many people in this country have a "wrong reason" for not BF.... surely many women have not enough information about milk production to feel that they truly didn't have enough milk....

OK - am I starting world war 3 ??? hope not

Don't you think it is ironic though, that we can get ourselves in a real lather about our babies putting on weight, only for them to probably spend a large portion of the rest of their lives trying to get it off? (the weight that is..)

Isn't there also a correlation between formula fed babies putting on weight very fast and adult obesity? I'm sure that the well informed Tiktok will be able to cite some research to back this up.
(I imagine her to be like a much loved teacher in the 'Mallory Towers' books. Dignified, grave and learned, but possessed of an excellent sense of humour and a terribly good sport to boot.)

In our house we never have to worry about making sure the little 'uns bellies are full. I have been known to hide in the airing cupboard if I have something extra tasty that I really don't want to share with dd. Thank God she hasn't developed a taste for Pouilly Fume-yet.

So glad that motherinferior has dropped by. Loved her description of Scandinavian b/feeding film.

I guess we don't feel as desperate because in reality, we know that an older child who won't eat won't die or quickly become seriously ill, but a 2 day old baby will. Makes sense really - I guess nature has programmed us to lose the sense of urgency as it becomes less urgent.

Yes, exactly what I meant, only much better put Caligula

That's me, doggie, dear....and yes, well done, there is indeed research linking obesity with formula feeding (controlled, too, for the babies who are socially 'destined' to be porky). But, hey, it's Friday, and you're just going to have to take my word for it and I can't go searching for the references. It can be your homework, to find it for me .

link to bbc news item regarding link between bfing/less risk of obesity:-

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/2029277.stm

here's your link, MTS, though as a breastfed baby who now weighs 19 stone, maybe I shouldn't be posting it ...

Just a little input about self attachment.

Babyfriendly hospitals (like ours) promote skin-to-skin contact for ALL babies as soon as possible after delivery. To me that is the biggest leap forward we have had in the delivery suite for years. Instead of weighing and wrapping a baby immediately after delivery, it is dried and placed skin-to-skin with mum. Babies absolutely adore it. It is excellent for regulating their breathing, heart rate and improving their colour rapidly. It also allows the baby to be colonised by organisms on it's mothers skin therefore reducing infection. That is especially important for cord care.

One of the good things about it also is that babies tend to start rooting for the breast - even medicated ones from painkillers used in labour. They make take a bit longer.

I always think it is such a shame when a baby seeks out the nipple, latches itself on and the mum says they are going to bottlefeed. That baby has got off to a great start and the mum would probably have few attachment problems hence less feeding problems in general. We have had women who planned to bottle feed actually change their minds and breastfeed after experiencing their baby seeking their breast. Truly wonderful to watch. However, one feed of colostrum is better than none at all.

Breastfeding after delivery is also a great way of getting stuck placentas out. Whenever I have tried that with a mum she has agreed and then has maybe said 'by the way I am bottle feeding'.

We do not ask women how they are planning to feed their babies prior to delivery because then a woman may feel she has to stick to her initial choice of bottlfeeding. Once the baby is born we offer help to breastfeed. If mum is bottlefeeding she says 'no thanks, I am bottlefeeding'. I say, OK, which milk would you like for your baby'. No problem.
I have had women decide to 'give it a try'. Sometimes they are pleasantly surprised and decide to continue. Others say they don't like the sensation and don't want to do it again. Absolutely no problem. I just wish all mums that have no medical reason not to breastfeed would give it a go. I love it when they say they hate it because then I know exactly where I stand

Wasn't planning to get sucked into this or other B/F threads

Ah Mears, have you thought of having yourself cloned?

My manager would hate it if there was more than one of me

wouldn't that depend if each clone received a full salary or not

just want to say thanks to tiktok and mears for providing such calm, sensible, reasonable and non-judgmental comments on this thread (and many others in the past).

Reminds me, I was in the recovery room with my naked-but-for-a-nappy newborn son snuggled to my bare chest, wrapped in my arms in a very warm room with blankets....both very, very happy...and ANOTHER horrid midwife (I did seem to get quite a few, all agency staff I think) said (in a pretty unfriendly tone) that unless I dressed him in a babygrow he would get so cold she would have to take him away and put him in an incubator

i'm sure i'm not the only m'netter who wishes all m/ws were like mears.

also, this thread has obviously had it's very low points - but discussions like this are, IMVHO, mumsnet's finest hour.

eek - its

Thanks for sharing that Mears that was particularly interesting, although I had heard of self attachment before, I am completely fascinated by it now x

bear with me - im new to this! When I had my daughter 4 months ago, i was all up for breastfeeding her, wanted the best for her and thought it was the cheaper option if im honest! Things started off ok, I fed for nearly an hour after she was first born, and it was lovely, got her home later the same day, and things were going fine... it wasnt until she was about 4 days old that things started going wrong... she was just not getting what she needed - i had no milk, so believe me, if i could have carried on i would, but it wasnt fair on her to keep depriving her. Her first bottle and she sank 4 oz in one go! She must have been hungry!

I was truly never coming back to this thread - but just HAVE to comment on Mears post - you sound like a fantastic midwife - seeing the miracle of birth on a daily basis must be brilliant and I can understand why you may feel disappointment when mums don't breastfeed when you see the pleasure that lots of mothers get from it - as it is the most natural thing to do but unfortunately not everyone is comfortable with doing it for various reasons but we all still like to hold our babies close when feeding them.
I thank you for your acceptance that some mothers want to bottlefeed with no 'buts'.
Its nice to get an informed balanced view that doesn't include a mind boggling array of statistics. Let's just accept that we all love our kids but we're all different.
Thanks again.

Pebbles, this truly is not an attack or criticism in ANY WAY so please don't think it is - as someone who also had no milk (but plenty of colostrum after four days) I wondered, did you seek any help with the situation? Did you continue to put your baby to the breast or consider mixed feeding? Or did you feel totally happy with your decision to stop breasfeeding? I am asking out of curiosity as I also had my milk come in a couple of days later than usual and do understand that 'where is my milk?' feeling but found there was plenty of it after day 4 (I was in hospital all this time as had a caesarian).

Mears - I also find it amazing when I speak to a woman on the BF helpline and she tells me that she hadn't planned to BF but she gave it a go and found it surprisingly fabulous...
I have also recently worked for a woman who hated BF, she BF her 1st for 5 weeka and was very happy to give it up, when her second baby came she still hated it and gave up after 3 weeks.... I wasn't there when she decide to stop (and didn't know that was her plan for that WE), I turned up 4 days later and she was in tears... guilt ridden, so unsure... she hated BF but knew it was best.... just couldn't cope with the whole thing. We sat downm, had a cuppa and a good heart to heart,.... to MY own amazement her baby is 6 months old and still BF (she decided to go back to it after our talk and a talk with her DH) and she loves it.... quite amazing!

jools - I know you mean me with your accusation of the mind-boggling array of statistics. I only ever give statistics when a question comes up which either directly asks for stats or evidence, or where an answer can be illuminated with them. I normally give a link so people can look the stats up if they wish. I rarely actually post the stats themselves. I am at a loss - still - to know why anyone would object to this.

Thanks, SQ, for the appreciation BTW

pepples, that must have been a shock after such an apparently good start.....like aloha says, sometimes milk does 'come in' a bit later than expected, and there can be a short time gap between the baby needing more and the body actually producing more During that time, the baby sometimes objects very strongly. OTOH, breasts can be very deceptive, and you think you have no milk but you really have...this is often the case with a baby who sucks a lot in the first days - your milk has come in, but the baby has taken the extra in his or her stride, and you're poised for the 'big breasts' that are the sign of milk coming in, and they just don't happen. I wonder if one of these scenarios happened to you?

tiktok - just wondered how usual it was for milk to "come in" a few days late, as that happened to me too, and what the significance of that is, if any - in this scenario is there anyway to avoid formula topups with a jaundiced baby?

I never got the engorged rock hard painful breasts that I was expecting to get at about day 3. But it wasn't until about day 6 that I really started producing any milk, as opposed to colostrum. Baby #2 was OK with this, but it didn't help baby #1, who was never successful at breastfeeding and was in intensive care and was jaundiced. She had such major feeding difficulties that I don't think it would have made any difference if the milk was spurting out of me 2 days after birth though.