Worried about my wife.......

[BritishBeef]

Hi there,
My son is only 2 weeks old and we are already at our limits. I guess that sounds pathetic and both my wife and I feel failures to be feeling this way so early on.

My wife had a lot of problems breastfeeding in during the first week due to our son having a very strong suction and also managing to 'click' whilst sucking which caused my wife so much pain that she cried whilst feeding. We had 3 different midwives confirm that he was latched on perfectly and couldn't work out what was going wrong. Things got better a few days ago and breastfeeding was bearable. In the last few days however, our son has been wanting feeding every 2 hours and his feeding time has lengthened to an hour or more meaning that my wife is feeding as much as she's not including 3 times during the night and again her nipples are getting painful. The rest of the time he is really grisly and won't settle meaning we are getting no rest. We tried winding etc. but no use. We take him out in the afternoon for an hour (he will usually sleep then). Yesterday he was awake for the best part of 16 hours out of 24 and most of that was grisly or crying.

Today, he's doing his feeding cues straight after an hour long feed. The feed is not constant and by the end it's as if he's just comfort sucking but like I said, as soon as he's removed from the breast he makes out that he wants feeding again. My wife changes breasts half way through but still no joy.

His weight is fine and when we discuss these sorts of things with the MW's they just say there's no problem because his weight is fine.

My real concern however is the strain on my wife. She's very tearful lately and says she can't cope anymore with the constant feeding and no rest. I'm finding it nearly as stressful and as I have suffered the last 5 years with mental illness (anxiety, stress, OCD, health anxiety) I am worried about myself too. I don't want to become depressed like I have in the past and I really don't want my wife to go down that route either.

We are considering switching to formula but that makes us feel total failures and guilty especially as the MW's have rammed it down our necks that not to breastfeed is wrong.

I really don't know what to do and would appreciate some advice.

Where do you live (vague area will do - such as Birmingham or North surrey) - we could find you the numbers of someone who could come and visit you and give specialist advice on breastfeeding - two organisations do this - La Leche League and most branches of the NCT.

Flamin' heck you poor things, no wonder you are at the end of your tether. I'm afraid I'm not able to offer much advice but there are some breastfeeding gurus on here. As a compromise could you try a formula bottle at night and then breast milk all the rest of the time (I expect to be jumped on for that suggestion but it's what I did and it helped). I really hope things get better soon, it won't go on like this forever although I'm sure it feels like it. Good luck!

OH yes GGG.

Message withdrawn

Can completely sympathise. I hope you can get the help you need in order for your wife to bf. I just wanted to add tho, that if she really can't continue (again, can completely sympathise), formula is not the only alternative - she could express her milk. It's another option - bf is the best and easiest way in the long run.

Poor you and poor wife.
I think to an extent this is somewhat normal. They go through phases of grizzling like this - very draining isnt it?! He (ds) is obviously doing well and putting on the weight he needs. Maybe you could express some milk into bottles and give the nipples a rest? And of course then you can take your turn at night. That way your wife will get more rest and you will feel like your helping and ds still gets the nutrition from her.
Have you tried a dummy? Even just as a temporary measure - i did this with mine for 4months and then took it away before they got too attached.

In my limited experience (2 kids) feeding every 2 hours at 2 weeks is normal

It is exhausting but it will get better

Try to take it one feed at a time

If you call the NCT line you will get to speak to a breastfeeding counsellor
There may be one locally that you can go and see in person

A dummy may give you some temporary relief

I had a similar problem with DS at around 4 weeks I think, the days sort of blurred into one!!! DS decided he was going to feed constantly for a few days and it drove me to despair. Unfortunately I had no idea what to do and just persevered, I'm sure you will get some help here, there are some wonderful breastfeeding counsellors on here.

The LLL seems to be the best bet, midwives are not trained in breastfeeding per se, so although some can be great, a proper trained helper is better.

Do you co-sleep at all? It can really help your wife get a better nights sleep without interrupting feeding too much, although I do reccommend you ask for more info on it before trying it, I'd be glad to tell you what I know.

Lastly, neither of you are failures
If you need to add some bottles, then do it, but it is likely that the breastfeeding will get better, especially with the right help, so if your wife wants to continue, try not to add too much formula. Her milk will not be properly established yet and bottles can interfere.

I would second phoning a counsellor; I found La Leche League extremely helpful myself.

I also agree that it takes roughly 4 - 6 weeks for breastfeeding to settle down and that it is not abnormal to feel teary, overwhelmed, exhausted and in pain during this time - but that doesn't mean that things can't be improved on the advice of a lactation counsellor.

I'm very sorry to hear how tough it is for you both - don't give up breastfeeding just yet but try all avenues to see if you can improve things.

{Just a thought... the clicking noises when he feeds... has he been checked for a tongue tie? I know one of my friends' ds clicked a lot during feeding and it was a tongue tie.}

But that aside, a few ideas.

First of all, my ds was just like this after the first two weeks. He had his latch checked numerous times by several MWs and HVs and they all said it was right.

It wasn't.

He used to want to be on the breast constantly. If he wasn't... he would cry.

Unfortunately my dh was not supportive like you. He tried to pressure me into ff because ds' constant feeding was not leaving me any time to do the housework. Yes really.

It took me until ds was about ten weeks' old to find a mw who checked his latch and no it wasn't right, he wasn't in the right position, his lips weren't curled back enough... there were many things that were wrong! She improved it with her magic fingers... don't ask me how.

However it took me ten weeks to find this magical mw.

I would suggest a couple of things... first of all for your dw to find a mw who is supportive of breastfeeding. You can do this by phoning your local hospital's maternity ward and asking for the Infant Feeding midwife / Infant Feeding co-ordinator and going to see her. You will find many hospitals have a drop in breastfeeding clinic.

I would also suggest that your dw might want to have a look at this: breast crawl. It is how a baby can find its own way to the breast and latch on perfectly... they can do it while they are still newborn, weeks after the birth. You could also google the phrase "biological nurturing" which is similar, about helping baby find its own latch.

I would also make a suggestion that if neither you or your wife smoke or drink you might want to consider sleeping with the baby for all or part of the night, once you get baby's latch sorted out of course! Obviously you have to be safe, so no really heavy duvets etc. but it will make night feeds a lot easier. If you have a small bed, it might be worth considering that for a short while, you make a sacrifice and sleep in the spare room for a bit while your dw and baby catch up on night-time sleep.

Your dw might even want to try doing it during daytime naps so she can get some rest.

It doesn't sound pathetic at all. My dh turned into a wreck after our ds was born... he hid it by turning into 1950s man iyswim, but has finally admitted he has depression and is on ADs for it.

There are lots of organisations out there too that support breastfeeding Mums, some of them come out and see you too.

Breastfeeding Network 0870 900 8787
NCT supporter line 0870 444 8708
La Leche League 0845 120 2918
Association of BF Mothers 020 7813 1481 and 08444 122 949

Unfortunately as they are all volunteers there is just not the capacity for every area to have someone who will come and see you, but they can advise as much as possible over the phone.

As I say, your local hospital will almost certainly have a mw who is an expert in bfing... please be aware that not all MWs are at all, in fact they may say "breast is best" and even try and discourage you from ff... but be absolutely no help at all (that was my unfortunate experience).

Thanks for the replies. Some responses:

ggglimpopo:
W elive in North Somerset (10 miles from Bristol)

Dior:
My wife is using (a lot of) Lansinoh which helps a little but she has an allergy to Lanolin and Lansinoh only has a little.

Dior; haychEebeeJeebees:

We have tried expressing a few times now but that is sometimes painful and he drinks it in about 3 minutes flat and still wants more! Also we worry that expressing will inhibit her milk supply.

haychEebeeJeebees:
We have tried a dummy (on advice from MV) but it only settles him for about 2 minutes.

Thanks for all the replies and the links, we'll look into those.

BB, sorry only read OP but your wife needs to get sympathetic & expert help (and that's obv not your midwives!).

A friend had 3 midwives at least check her latch and tell her it was ok only for things to go badly wrong. It was too late for her by the time she got to see an actual bfc who noticed that her dd was not latched properly and was actually getting very little milk.

Once someone has checked that the latch really is ok and your ds (congratulations btw!) is getting plenty of milk and gaining, it might be worth considering a dummy or giving him a finger to suck on if your dw can't tolerate the comfort sucking.

I can see why you're at the end of your tether. It's early days, they do feed very frequently and it's all exhausting but it can/does get better with support for you all.

And obviously, no guilt, not any if you decide that ff is the way to go. I really would recommend trying to get some more support first though as it sounds like bf is something that your dw wants to do.

Oh and it might be an idea to be okay to let standards slip around the house for a bit, or for you to do a bit more than your "fair share" if you absolutely have to keep the house gleaming, and let your dw concentrate purely on bfing.

You sound nice so I'm sure you don't mind!

When she expresses don't use lansinoh - it creates friction, use olive oil instead. Also although bf is best for keeping milk supply up, expressing will also stimulate milk supply - I expressed solely for a year, and could have continued til ds was 18!

BritishBeef

"Also we worry that expressing will inhibit her milk supply"

If you think low supply is a problem - it might be, might not be, I'm no expert! - expressing in addition to feeds can actually boost supply rather than the other way around... keep the expressed milk in the freezer for up to three months or even longer in a deep freeze.

Although once your baby's latch is sorted out, your baby is far better at removing the milk than a pump tends to be so more frequent feeds will boost supply rather than messing around with a pump.

Oh, yes, also, if her nipples are sore, I suggest she hand expresses a tiny amount of milk after a feed, and rubs it into her nipples. But really, please see a professional, and good luck.

Congratulations on the birth of your son. Everything you say sounds like exactly the type of problems we were having when our firstborn was tiny - even though that was nearly ten years ago.

It does sound like you're having a tough time, but the first six weeks are hard work and it will get better.

You are doing fantastically - and so is your wife - to have persevered this far. A lot of others would have given up by now. Please don't do that - you are doing a great job. It sounds like you are great parents and your wife is lucky to have a dh who is supportive enough to post on mumsnet! Welcome, by the way.

Please take the advice of others and contact an NCT or La Leche Counsellor.

Apart from that, try to take it easy, make sure you're both eating, sleep when your ds sleeps, and try and enjoy him.

It WILL get easier. We are all here to support you too.

Good luck and keep posting.

Mossy: Thanks for your detailed reply and the phone numbers - very helpful.

He was checked for tongue tie by the MW and he is apparently fine.

One of the strange things is that if we do express and feed him with a bottle, he drinks the lot in about 3 minutes (even with a slow flow teat) yet when BF he takes an hour??!!

We'll look into breast crawl and co-sleeping although as we have had no time for naps during the day yet I can't see that happening during the day.

BB: are you sure he is feeding for the full hour and not sleeping too?

That is because he's suckling for comfort for most of that time. He gets most of the milk in the first few minutes, then keeps sucking to get the hind milk (the creamy stuff). It comes out a lot slower after the initial let-down, even slower than a slow-flow teat.

That is what my LO was like. Constant feeding. Turns out she had a bit of reflux for a while and gaviscon helped - though your LO is a bit young for that I think.

The feeding cues.....are you sure they are feeding cues? I only ask because I used to mix up feeding and tired cues. They are very similar. It may be that LO has a full feed then needs to lie down in a darkened room and go to sleep.

Otherwise - second what everyone else has said more or less. It gets better but get latch checked. Well done though to both of you.

I hope everybody's advice has helped you, and I hope your wife is able to carry on with her BF BUT (please don't get upset by this any other MNer's,) if she is finding it too much and if her depression and aniexty gets too much, change to the bottle. You won't be a failure, I bottlefed both my DD's and they were fine. I had other problems with them, so I know how hard it is not to get enough sleep! I don't want to sound condensending but it has only been 2 weeks! Your wife maybe hasn't recovered from the birth yet.Try not to get to anxious and don't feel there is a 'proper' way to do everything, you'll soon find a way that suits you all. Enjoy your new family and good luck with the BF, you're in the right place for advice on it!

I think the first thing you need to do is contact one of the bf helplines and let your wife have a chat with a bf counsellor. They are run by very knowledgable and well trained bf counsellors who will be able to talk through her concerns. I would also get her to ask if a bfc could come to you to watch a feed as the very painful feeding and clicking noises indicate that he's not attached as well as he should be. Unfortunately, most mws are not as well trained in bf as they ought to be and are not skilled enough to spot an incorrect latch.

Lansinoh (available from Boots or Mothercare, among other places) is great for sore nipples, just rub it on after every feed.

Feeding frequently and for long periods is very normal at this age, as is the grizzling all day as her milk supply is still getting established and I remember how draining it is. The easiest thing is for your dw to go to bed, snuggle under the covers with her and the baby naked (you can join them!) and have lots of skin to skin time, feeding whenever the baby wants. You can help by fetching drinks, chocolate, magazines, etc and taking the baby out for a bit so she can sleep.

Do you have a sling that you could put on and carry the baby around so he is getting some closeness and comfort but without the milk smell of mummy? Often they settle better if they are snuggled up where they can hear a heartbeat. My dcs loved lying on their tummies on my dh's chest at that age.

The best advice I was given was to take it one day at a time. Don't make any sudden decisions about ff, aim to get to the end of each day with bf and see how you feel the following morning.

This stage is so hard for both of you. Your life has been turned upside down, you're knackered, hormonal and have no idea what's going on. I remember it well. BUT, it will pass and it passes quite quickly when you look back. You will get through it!

Re. formula. It's NOT the end of the world. Yes, bf is better if you can manage it but not to the detriment of your's and dw's health and well being. If you decide to go down that route because it's the right one for you then that's fine, it's no one's decision but your own.