Worried about my wife.......

[BritishBeef]

Hi there,
My son is only 2 weeks old and we are already at our limits. I guess that sounds pathetic and both my wife and I feel failures to be feeling this way so early on.

My wife had a lot of problems breastfeeding in during the first week due to our son having a very strong suction and also managing to 'click' whilst sucking which caused my wife so much pain that she cried whilst feeding. We had 3 different midwives confirm that he was latched on perfectly and couldn't work out what was going wrong. Things got better a few days ago and breastfeeding was bearable. In the last few days however, our son has been wanting feeding every 2 hours and his feeding time has lengthened to an hour or more meaning that my wife is feeding as much as she's not including 3 times during the night and again her nipples are getting painful. The rest of the time he is really grisly and won't settle meaning we are getting no rest. We tried winding etc. but no use. We take him out in the afternoon for an hour (he will usually sleep then). Yesterday he was awake for the best part of 16 hours out of 24 and most of that was grisly or crying.

Today, he's doing his feeding cues straight after an hour long feed. The feed is not constant and by the end it's as if he's just comfort sucking but like I said, as soon as he's removed from the breast he makes out that he wants feeding again. My wife changes breasts half way through but still no joy.

His weight is fine and when we discuss these sorts of things with the MW's they just say there's no problem because his weight is fine.

My real concern however is the strain on my wife. She's very tearful lately and says she can't cope anymore with the constant feeding and no rest. I'm finding it nearly as stressful and as I have suffered the last 5 years with mental illness (anxiety, stress, OCD, health anxiety) I am worried about myself too. I don't want to become depressed like I have in the past and I really don't want my wife to go down that route either.

We are considering switching to formula but that makes us feel total failures and guilty especially as the MW's have rammed it down our necks that not to breastfeed is wrong.

I really don't know what to do and would appreciate some advice.

First of all, congratulations on your baby boy, secondly, your wife is really lucky to have you.

I had this with both my sons. My health visitor told me to restrict feeding to 15-20 minutes on each breast and NO more. She said most breasts were just about empty after 15 minutes and the rest was only comfort sucking. The milk that comes after 15 minutes is what is produced "as you go" and very little, so some will still be there but just a trickle. And letting the baby stay at the breast sucking prevents the breast from filling up for the next 15 minute burst, and makes your nipples really sore and painful.

Now, I am not a breastfeeding councillor, but this advice worked for me, and baby was still thriving and putting on weight.

BB
You have lots of wonderful replies here, wish I had come onto this forum, when I was struggling with it all.

Your night time sounds about right for a BF baby of 2 weeks old. MY LO didnt go through the night until 4 months. 11 - 7am. She used to wake every 1.5 to 2 hrs during the night and cluster feed during the evening, which I didnt realise and thought she had colic, I then realised that she wanted to lots during the evening up to about 12 and then went for about 3/4hrs, up again til 5 and then thru to 7am etc etc.

It is exhausting, what might be an idea is for your wife to express so she can sleep and you give a feed, so at least that way one of you isnt suffering from the worst form of torture - sleep deprivation.

in my opinion, the first 6 weeks were hell. ANd I have been TTC for 9 years and adore my baby more than anything, but it was soo stressful, I spent my time crying (hormones and on the edge of desperation)

Re the Dummy - my LO tried it and hated it. But loved my little finger. you might want to try it if he has a strong sucking reflex.

There is a great book, called the Gentle First Year - which I found the most helpful. Its got lots of things in there, not just about BF. I found and still find it incredibly useful. There is also another book called what to do if you are breastfeeding and what if you cant. or something like that.

Remember - you arent failing at anything, you are learning to be parents and that first 6 weeks was the toughest challenge of my life. Don't pile the guilt on yourselves. You might just have a hungry little boy. This happened to a friend of mine, she had a barracuda jaws for a baby, who was hungry still after 2 breasts and a bottle of expressed milk. She went full time to expressing and then had to go onto FF, because the baby was always hungry. Now a happier baby on hungry baby formula.

I am wishing you all the luck in the world, I know that all the women on here - who have been through this - probably wish we could give you and your family a big hug and just come and help you out. Its a shame our culture doesnt embrace more of other cultures where there is more help for the mother and baby (and dad too!)

Right, will stop waffling now, have a teething baby to tend to (that's the next stage of fun!)

The first one on this list sounds like a good possibility for bf support round here (I'm in NSomerset too), and there's a lot more phone numbers here. I'm seeing my independent midwife tomorrow so I'll ask who she would recommend. Sounds to me like you need to just hang in there and facilitate your wife catching up on some sleep.

Have you thought about an Amby hammock?

BB - congratulations on your baby. You've got some really great advice here but I have to say your DS sounds completely like mine at that age. You're not a failure for feeling like this 'so early on' - this is the worst bit! It will get better. My DS fed every 2.5-3 hours and cried after every feed for an hour and a half until he was about 5-6 weeks old. And then it got better.

Just keep telling yourselves this is a really, really short time and both get rest whenever you can.

Co-sleeping saved me, as did going to see a bf counsellor. The MWs and HVs who were sent by my PCT were, to be blunt, crap. The bf drop-in at the maternity hospital was amazing and I only wish I'd gone earlier. Clicking is definitely a sign of a poor latch and please get it sorted now before it causes lasting damage to your wife's nipples (one of mine has a permanent nick out of it).

Good luck, both of you.

Can anyone recommend a good baby sling? Preferably one that doesn't look to 'flowery' so I can use it whenever!

If you're looking for one so you don't spend too much try this one you can even go on ebay and search for one second hand even cheaper! You can get one in black.

Do take a look at this web site too as there might even be a sheet or light blanket in your house that could do just the job without having to fork out any money.

If you try something cheap and you like it, then you can graduate to something a bit more pricey.

It can be like that at 2 weeks. Have you tried things like you taking the baby out for an hour in the car whilst it cries for the next feed which often helps send it to sleep and gives her a break or hoovering the house with it strapped in a sling which worked with ours.

I went back to full time work at 2 weeks which was a lovely break I'd recommend to all women and I expressed the milk at work which was easier too and then the nanny fed the baby with my milk whilst I was out which helped too. Much easier to be in an office than at home 24/7 with a difficult baby.

Xenia! I'm sure BB's wife would relish the idea of work right now!

BB, congratulations . You had excellent advise. Your ds sounds just like my ds, who was feeding constantly and crying for the rest of the time. I only managed to remain sane because we were in Italy at that time (our country of origin) and we were staying with family, which meant lots of support. I found that having other people to keep me company while constantly feeding the baby helped me not to sink into despair and gave me reassurance. Have you got friends/family who are intimate enough to help you a bit or simply visit for a chat and I don't know, wind the baby while your dw takes a shower? I felt "housebound" with my crying baby, and having people around helped me feel less lonely, iykwim...
All the best, the first few weeks are often very difficult and then, out of the blue, things qickly start to get better

at this age, a Moby, Kari-me or Hugabub is perfect. Perfect for beginners, perfect for newborns and the patterns shouldn't challenge your masculinity.

5m of fabric sounds like a lot but once it is wrapped, it disappears.

bigmamasling sells moby & hugabub.

here is someone putting on amoby very slowly

i meant to put in a or a after 'challenge your masculinity' but i had a demanding toddler around and it bypassed me.

For slings - also try mumsnet for sale. seller called saba saba - i think? - has some for sale, if you put a post and refer or link to your post here, you should get something pretty cheap..

they are a god send, but I have found the wrap better than the ring sling - but all is personal preference.

Shame - just gave someone my old baby bjorn for postage and have just given someone else my ring sling!!

Mamatoto - is ace, you can actually make one from a v. easy pattern on there. If all else fails, try with a tied up long scarf/pashmina - baby wearing works so well to calm - the movement, your heartbeat normally soothes even the most upset baby... imo

You've had loads of good advice. I hope today is a better day.

From what you've written BB I think you may be confusing tiredness with hunger - at that age the cues are very similar.

Feeding over an hour is rarely necessary - by that point IME they are doing non-nutritive sucking. That is the time to then remove him from the breast and try techniques for getting him to sleep, either swaddling, baby-wearing, going out in the pram/car, whatever you can do really.

My DD3 would have fed for ever, so my DH used to take her in another room (so she couldn't see or smell me) and lie quietly with her on his chest (up not across) and shush her and pat her back.

Don't worry about letting him fall asleep on you, he's far too young to worry about bad habits now. Just try and get him to sleep!

Hope things settle down. It really won't last forever, honestly.

Just wanted to add re. the slings: carrying the baby can be so helpful, so don't be put off the whole idea if you don't like the look of the wrap-type slings. I found them easier to tie than expected, but you could go for a "strappier" baby-carrier-type-thing instead. (Sorry, don't have a specific make to suggest.) Hope you find something that works well for you.

A recommendation for the Kari-me - here:

www.kari-me.com/

Both my dd's were like your little one at this age and the kari-me was invaluable - looks complicated but you get the hang of it really quickly and it fits all different sized people. The effect it has on a screaming baby is somewhat profound - they are strapped womb-like to your chest (and yes, seem equally happy with dad as mum) - you feel their little chests shudder as they have got in such a state, then you feel their whole tiny body relax and it is incredible. My two would go from screaming to blissful sleep within minutes.

As for the hour long feeds and stuff - really really common and feels awful, there's a point where you feel like you might suffocate from being so close to a baby for that long - I found it invaluable to get a really good breastfeeding cushion, loads out there but this one is nice and firm:
cgi.ebay.co.uk/FEEDING-NURSING-SUPPORT-PILLOW-WHITE-FREE-POSTAGE_W0QQitemZ260167548592QQihZ016QQcate goryZ66675QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem -

having a cushion at least meant i could feed 'hands free' - so I could drink, have a snack, read a book, catch up on phone calls etc. - really made all those long long feeds more bearable.

Best Wishes to you and your new arrival.

(apologies if links don't work)

BB, re the silverettes, I don't think they could interfere with let-down etc, they are worn between feeds and don't think there would be any major pressure on the nipple. And if they interfered with bf in any way, moondog wouldn't recommend them, she is one of our more vocal breastfeeding advocates here on MN!

Oh, yes, sidge - I WISH I had spent a lot less time worrying about bad habits. I breastfed my baby to sleep, and had periodic panic attacks about it (yeah, thanks, BabyCentre). She gave it up of her own accord, we did very gentle gradual withdrawal which worked like a charm at 9/10 months. BB, the "do what works" mantra is key at this stage. If anyone mentions bad habits, slap then with a filthy nappy.

ds1 when he was tiny used to stay on my boob for 45 minutes at a time. It's OK to detach him because as other people have said, by that stage he isn't actually getting any milk.

To detach correctly your dw should gently slide her little finger into the side of his mouth to break the seal. Never never never pull him off, it would be horribly painful. But breaking the latch gently with the little finger works really well, and if you're really nimble you can slide in a dummy before the baby really cottons on.

It's important for your dw to protect her nipples and one way of doing this is to stop the baby from endlessly comfort sucking.

BB, so much great advice on here and so much to try - I really hope something will help. I just wanted to add to what others have said about how well you are doing. The reality of life with a newborn can be very, very hard and you are a wonderful husband to be trying so hard and doing so much to help with the breastfeeding. It will pass, for both of you, you will find a way, it will get easier. In a couple of weeks your DS will smile and that will keep you going too!

I also second that if he will take a bottle quickly and easily, go down that route to give you a break - whether expressed milk or, if necessary, occasional formula top-ups. If this works, you will be amazed what a difference the relief will make to your outlook.

And congratulations! He is a lucky boy to have you as parents.

to correct one myth from fatslag: 'endless sucking' does not damage nipples. poor latch does. non-nutritive sucking actually stimulates supply so it has a beneficial function especially in the early days.

someone mentioned already that sleep cues and hunger cues are very similar. time will sort these things out for you.

Second kiski - once we got established she'd cluster feed from pretty much 5-10 pm. Didn't hurt at all to have her sucking for almost 5 hours straight! And it was fab - feet up, remotes to hand, lovely husband like BB bringing dinner for me to spill on baby. BB - once it works, it's truly fab - hang on in there.

BB - thank god your wife has a lovely supportive husband. Well done - you both need a clap on the back for coping so far.
Have skimmed the thread but for me co-sleeping is the absolute life saver. I was in bits til about day 6 and then tried it and since then haven't looked back. Don't worry about your lo being in your bed forever. Our dd sleeps half the time in her cot and half with us - shes' now 18 weeks. I fall asleep whilst feeding her and often wake up to find her mooching around asleep trying to find the nipple - ah!
Also - try a support group. My dh came with me the first week and although he was the only bloke there he was completely accepted and I needed him. It really sustained me for a few days over the most difficult and tearful time of my life.
Saying that it was difficult and tearful, actually it was also the most amazing time - so a really big congrats on your new family!
If you do ff, no biggie. However if you manage to carry on bf it really does get easier. Sometimes I look down and she's stopped feeding and is staring at me waiting for me to stare back, then gives me a huge smile and gets on with feeding!

Forgot to say also about slings. We've got two - a babybjorn and a huggababy. She loves the bb and hates the other. However my friends baby is the opposite. If you can borrow just for a day a friends or maybe someone from the support group, then it saves you wasting money.