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Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

Original poster

Mumsnet has showed me the meaning of prejudice

264 replies

Hannie55 · 12/08/2007 13:03

OK, so i breastfed dd.
Intend to bottlefeed this one (due end aug).
Must be pretty neutral right?
So why is it when i read the debates on here that its clear as day to a neutral that its mums who bottle feed formula to their babies that are the ones being judged and harangued?
Yet its some of the breastfeedrs who shout loudest and demand the acknowledgement that they are in fact the opressed?
What makes it worse is its so underhand and sly, if any bottle feeders come back they are accused of being prejudiced, paranoid and of supressing guilt (wtf?!).
Mumsnet has really opened my eyes to some wierd views, none moreso than the anti-formula lobby (who of course are not anti formuls at all).

Really did not realise these people existed, thankfully they only appear in cyber-space!

OP posts:
hunkermunker · 12/08/2007 13:30

And I don't think that your feeding method makes you "neutral" really.

There are plenty of women who've breastfed and ffed who have non-neutral opinions.

mears · 12/08/2007 13:34

Hannie55 - I avoid most of the breastfeeding/formula feeding debates because they always get heated due to people's experiences and they usually end up with women feelings getting in the way of a factual discussion.

Do not forget that the vast majority of women in this country formula feed therefore it is not that they are a minority group who need protecting.

I am a midwife and mother who exclusively breastfed my own 4 children and loved it. It is the best way to feed a baby - endof.

For me the benefit of mumsnet is that many women post here seeking support in continuing breastfeeding. The information women generally get in real life when there are problems is to switch to a bottle.

That advice is usually inaccurate and I habve lost count of the women who have discovered on here that there is no need for them to top-up or switch to formula feeding.

I am intr gued to know why you will formula feed this time when you breastfed last time. However that is your own business.

My only concern is for mothers who have been told they can't start or continue for nay reason when it is factually incorrect.

I have no issue with women who choose to formula feed by making an informed choice.

Formula is not anywhere near breastmilk but is a suitable alternative to breastmilk. That is a fact. That is not a judgement on women who CHOOSE to bottle feed.

Many of the breast/formula threads on mumsnet will highlight that women often do not freely make that choice - they usually have no other option.

mears · 12/08/2007 13:35

Not sure i understand what you mean by neutral TBH

sherbert · 12/08/2007 13:42

I actually quite agree with Hannie, I have been on MN for years. Bottefeeders do get a rough ride, are definetly judged more feriously. There is a sense of superiority amongst the 'exclusive breastfeeders' -never letting a drop of formula past the DB lips.

I BF and bottlefed both my children.

hunkermunker · 12/08/2007 13:46

Sherbert, just by saying "exclusively bf", that's taken as a judgement by some women on what they may have chosen for their babies.

But the way you've written your post, women who have exclusively bfed and worked hard to do so could take that as a judgement about them and what they've chosen for their babies.

Can you see how that might be?

So, ill-feeling all round and no further forward with a solution.

Great.

LadyTophamHatt · 12/08/2007 14:02

I'm another one who never posts on these threads, but I have to say I do kindof understand teh OP.

I really wanted to BF ds4, was desparate too mke it work this time.
You all know it didn't.
I expressed as much milk as I possibly could for him which, although it was a measley amount made me exceptionally proud.

When the school holidays arrived and I had all 4 ds's at home for the first time the tiny bit of milk I di have dried up and I stopped. I'm sure I could have got it back if I'd really tried but it was hard hard hard work.

Anyway, MN had been so lovely and supportive when I'd started a thread about the 1st bottle of EBM that I was too embarrassed to admit that I had stopped expressing. I didn't mention it for weeks.

On another thread tiktok posted an analogy about breast/bottle feeding. About a breasting bus and having a ticket for that bus but then finding your self on the bottle feeding bus, knowing that you had a ticket for the breast feeding one....reading that post made me cry (it has made me well up now) because I realised how important it was too me and how bad I felt about bottle feeding.
I really do feel like bottle feeding is frown upon, not just on here and but in RL too, its almost like we're 2nd class citizens.

daisythedog · 12/08/2007 14:03

Well done Hercules on confirming Hannie's point about bottle-feeders being accused of being paranoid supressing guilt by saying "Perhaps you're feeling a bit defensive and guilty?" [13:13]

And Mears -- You say "Do not forget that the vast majority of women in this country formula feed therefore it is not that they are a minority group who need protecting." Perhaps if you gathered them all together they'd be able to protect themselves, but there are individuals on this website, not monolithic majorities. While I will not use pejorative terms to describe the mumsnet BF activists/supporters/pick-your-own-word, I will say that I have seen a bit of a mob mentality on this board, and I have seen what can fairly be interpreted as "ganging up" against particular FFing posters. I don't care how many of them there are IRL, they should be treated with respect here.

mears · 12/08/2007 14:06

Wel I actually do get fed up of being criticised because I 'exclusively' breastfed my babies. It is as if I am not allowed to say it because it means I am judging someone else. I am not allowed to feel pride in my achievement incase I offend other mothers.

What utter shite and that is why I end up wanting to scream at these pointless BF/FF feeding debates.

I EXCLUSIVELY breastfed my babies and i am bloody proud of myself.

I certainly do not judge other mothers for how they feed their babies and I expect the same in return.

I am a midwife and I support formula feeding mothers and I use formula top-ups when they are needed.

Women who successfully breastfeed IMO have to justify there existance more often as they are a small, misunderstood minority. Just ask them about their HV experiences.

hunkermunker · 12/08/2007 14:06

LTH, you did brilliantly expressing. Brilliantly.

"..because I realised how important it was too me and how bad I felt about bottle feeding.
I really do feel like bottle feeding is frown upon, not just on here and but in RL too, its almost like we're 2nd class citizens."

Can you see that it might be because you don't feel happy about bottlefeeding that you're feeling judged?

I don't judge you. I don't judge any woman who bottlefeeds, truly. Not even Jordan

I will say again, I am interested in helping women have the best experience they can if they want to breastfeed.

I would think it's fairly obvious (I would hope it is) that I'm not interested in belittling those same women and making them feel shit if they don't continue breastfeeding.

McEdam · 12/08/2007 14:10

'Exclusive' b/f doesn't mean 'superior' it means 'breast milk alone'. I think you are getting confused about terminology. I can see how the use of the word exclusive can suggest superiority but that's not actually the case, it just means 'nothing but b/m'.

Spoken as a mainly b/f who gave the odd bottle - so not an exclusive b/f.

hunkermunker · 12/08/2007 14:11

Any woman who makes smug comments about her own breastfeeding experience is as guilty as a ffeeding mum who makes a bf nazi comment to a bfer, I think.

This sort of thing enhances the divide.

FGS, what is the matter with you all, bitching about which group has the most judgemental slatings on here?

Any of you actually doing anything about making it better for women? (except Mears )

Hmm? Or just standing about, making unhelpful comments?

hunkermunker · 12/08/2007 14:13

Can I just reiterate - I said smug comments - I mean the sort that go like this:

"Well, I never had any problems feeding in public"

or

"It's natural, you can't have tried hard enough if you didn't manage it, I found it very easy"

Not "I only fed my babies bmilk" - that's just a statement of fact.

mears · 12/08/2007 14:14

LTH - I remember your posts well and I have to tell you that one of the most disheartening things about supporting women to breastfeed is when they feel they cannot tell you they are using formula incase they feel they have 'let you down'.

That is what makes it all so difficult. No-one would have criticsed your choices yet you felt that would have happened.

Women have to do what suits their family and lifestyles. Sometimes the input that needs to be done to retrieve breastfeeding is just too much. I respect that and have never judged anyone for the choices they make.

nutcracker · 12/08/2007 14:15

I agree with OP too.

MellowMa · 12/08/2007 14:16

Message withdrawn

Beetroot · 12/08/2007 14:16

Anyone else really really bored of this debate? B V FF?

It is neverending ground hog day

LadyTophamHatt · 12/08/2007 14:17

Thats why I hi-lighted the I at the start of the sentence Hunker.
I know it mostly all in my mind....but I still do think its out there.

I feel very envious of breastfeeding mums when I see them.

(BTW I keep meaning to tell you, I've trained the big Ds's well....they walk around teh supermarket saying "nestle...can't have that....nestle...nope not that....nestle make that....." you'd be proud!!)

mears · 12/08/2007 14:17

Me too. Sometimes you just get sucked in. Am away to get sorted for my holidays

hunkermunker · 12/08/2007 14:25

LTH, I'm very proud...I think DS4 might be similarly rejecting his Weetabix on non-Nestle grounds too

Beety, I'm fed up with the same old shite being said, but not with the issues. I am fed up with it being a "versus" thing, definitely.

Beetroot · 12/08/2007 14:27

yes I guess you grow out of this stuff - mine is should I give my 13 year old white or red wine - which will make him be more intelligent

zookeeper · 12/08/2007 14:33

I agree with op entirely - I usually steer clear of these threads because its the same old few patronising others.

FluffyMummy123 · 12/08/2007 14:36

Message withdrawn

LadyTophamHatt · 12/08/2007 14:36

Aha, maybe that is why it threw it all up hunker. I've produced a genius

(there weren't nestle ones though)

FluffyMummy123 · 12/08/2007 14:38

Message withdrawn

Eulalia · 12/08/2007 14:39

I have NEVER once said "I exclusively breastfed my baby, therefore I am a better person" or even hinted at that. I may have stated that I breastfed exclusively as a bald fact and why shouldn't I? So any "sense of superiority" that anyone has gleaned must be taken from the part of the reader.

AND why shouldn't we be proud of this anyway - why do women want to be so bitchy about each other.

If you want to bottlefeed your baby, fine do it, you won't need to read any breastfeeding threads anyway so won't get hurt by any comments. Why get involved. There are threads about talented children on Mumsnet. I don't have any talented children. I don't go on those threads and get annoyed because they talk about their children or say they are being superior.

This is an open forum and we can talk about what we like and that is exactly what we do and no-one has the right to come on and start dictating what and how we should discuss.