Mumsnet has showed me the meaning of prejudice

[Hannie55]

OK, so i breastfed dd.
Intend to bottlefeed this one (due end aug).
Must be pretty neutral right?
So why is it when i read the debates on here that its clear as day to a neutral that its mums who bottle feed formula to their babies that are the ones being judged and harangued?
Yet its some of the breastfeedrs who shout loudest and demand the acknowledgement that they are in fact the opressed?
What makes it worse is its so underhand and sly, if any bottle feeders come back they are accused of being prejudiced, paranoid and of supressing guilt (wtf?!).
Mumsnet has really opened my eyes to some wierd views, none moreso than the anti-formula lobby (who of course are not anti formuls at all).

Really did not realise these people existed, thankfully they only appear in cyber-space!

You know despite being in the minority on my ward in hospital when I was bf ds I can honestly say that the majority of women admired and praise me but I suspect a lot of them didn't do it because of lack of support but I'm going to stop now because I feel lie I'm verging into judgment which is not my intention, again just want to agree with you post wellie.

Kerry, by giving someone 'a hard time' over their choices in feeding THEIR children is highly insulting.

Even if someone thinks there boobs are 100% for their man (or woman) it has nothing to do with you. Their boobs, their baby, their choice

Being a parent isn't all 100% best for baby, it's sometimes what is best for the family.

And guess what, that's how babies thrive...with love and happiness

Haven't read the whole thread (yet) - don't you hate it when people say that!

I bottle feed.

People on here know. They have asked why I FF, I have told them, more than anything the ones who know are very shocked as to why I had to bottle feed.

That isn't prejudiced, they don't judge me.

I hate how this debate is on going ALL THE TIME...it's getting tiresome now.

I know I can't judge any parent for their choices as we are all doing what we feel is best for our children with the information & resourses we have at hand. When will people realise that?

Kerry, your info is out of date - maybe 2 per cent of women in ROI breastfeed to 6 mths, but the initiation rates are far higher.

More worryingly, you still think formula feeders 'should be given a bit of a hard time'.

Because criticism and prejudice (which you also admit to) always work when you are trying to change attitudes? Because women who have been brought up to believe using the human body and breastmilk are 'dirty' are bound to see the light when they are deemed selfish? Because women who won't get any help and support for choosing to bf from their own families will llisten instead to people giving them a 'hard time'???

Do you know anything about motivation and human behaviour - anything at all???

Agree with Tiktok's assessment of your statistics Kerry.

I think at least a third of women living in Eire are breastfeeding when they leave hospital.

"Sorry to Queen - have just not "met" you before."

Can't say that I'm particularly sorry you've not met me before - perhaps if you were a little less narrow minded and tried to think about other reasons that women choose to fF (as opposed to the don't see the point/dirty/breasts for them only types) then you wouldn't p*ss people off so much - and might be a little more understanding.

"Being a parent isn't all 100% best for baby, it's sometimes what is best for the family.

And guess what, that's how babies thrive...with love and happiness"

Well said. HoH

well obviously you're NOT very understanding of the issues about why some women CHOOSE to FF (I'm not talking about those who not felt they had a choice) or you would be so prejudice towards them!

Things WON'T change if people like you can't be bothered to try and be less narrowminded!

I don't take any notice of these ff v bf debates anymore. My reason is because a while ago there was a thread about women smoking during pregnacy and while there were plenty saying how awful it is, there were peolpe on there defending it by saying things like 'maybe she is depressed' or 'maybe she is having a hard time' blah blah blah and saying that peole shouldn't judge the woman for smoking.

Are these women defending the woman who was smoking whilst pregnant the same women who wittle on about the benefits of bf and say that mums are selfish for not putting the babies health first? Many women think it's ok the smoke whilst pregnant but are horrified about ff. Maybe this is because you can't see the baby whilst pregnant so you don't see smoking as harmful?

And are these women who lecture about bf the same women who may go on the feeding their kids aload of junk food when they get bigger? I am not pointing the finger at anyone specific but surely if your going to preach about a baby's health then bf is only a small part of it. Surely what you do before the baby is born and after the baby stops having milk are just as important.

I generally find Mn more pro BF than formula feeding. Not sure if thats the way it should be or not. But there is lots and lots of evidence which states that BF is the better option. So I do feel it should be encouraged.

'Mums who B/F do think they are superior and their babies are healthier in comparison to the non B/F Mums...and they are not.' - er actually statistically they are.

In my social world atm, as someone who intends to BF my second child I seem to be in the minority. I hear such rubbish being sprouted about breast milk and feeding, but don't really feel able to speak up. I'm happy with my choices, and as long as they are too then that is fine. I suspect somehow though that they are not, hence the reason for such vehemence about BF. Note I am talking about RL people and not people on MN. As I'm not feeding at present I don't tend to have an awful lot to do with feeding threads ATM.

Also SEA, I'm really sorry to hear about your mum. But I have to agree with others that it is highly unlikely to be caused by her BF. My mum had a mastectomy last year and I looked up about preventative measures. On the the cancer care website it lists pregnancy and breast feeding as a way of reducing the risk. This was one of the many arguments I used on DP when I was convincing him about No 2! FWIW, my mum BF me, she never sun bathes, cooks all foods from scratch, has a low alcohol intake and has never even tried a cigarette. Statistics help identify 'risk factors' they don't rule anyone out for anything. I can understand that your mum having cancer when you were so young must have affected you deeply though.

Well done, HouseofHormones, for introducing the concept of "the bigger picture" so eloquently, that is exactly what I was alluding to in my last post.
Unfortunately, for some people who have extreme views, it must be hard to take on board the simple fact that how a baby is fed is not the be all and end all for ever after of its nutrition and health as a child, teenager and adult.

If I had been given a hard time about bottle feeding by the NCT group I joined when I had dd I would have left and never gone back.

Because they were supportive, listened to me and my feelings about feeding, gently gave me information guess what, 2nd time around I decided to breastfeed and also through fantastic support and yes the occasional use of formula managed to overcome total breast refusal for the first month.

Anyone who thinks that infant feeding is the be all and end all of child rearing truly would be mental.

There is more involved in caring for a baby than just that.

I dont feel able to dismiss the feeding choices of a parent as 'comme ci comme ca' though, since infant feeding is a primary concern for parents from neo-natal until at least 4 months, along with sleep, and nappy contents. That's all babies do, pretty much. AND, feeding and weight gain is focussed on very much during this time, to assess whether a baby is 'thriving'.

Kerrymum, its all very well taking the 'moral highground' with regard to name-calling and such like. I am not entirely sure what you were expecting when you posted?

I agree with all tiktok said, and I believe your comments do invoke the thought that you must be ignorant, to come to such sharp judgements. Your comments are equivalent to closing the stable door after the horse has bolted, so to speak. What is the point of bashing people over the head who have already made their choice, with an opinion, irrespective of whether it's right or wrong? Surely, if you cared about feeding choices - you'd be more concerned about supporting those who do want to b/feed, or, who arent armed with knowledge to make them feel that b/feeding is a choice available to them?

Am loving the "extreme b/feeding" insinuations, btw folks

Ok JV and Hunker you wondered about the earlier posters who don't want to say what they feel, well I'm one of them and I have very strong views on breastfeeding which I feel would be seen as being slightly superior, which is why I wasn't going to say anything, but I might as well, because I am very proud
I am incredibly proud of myself for breastfeeding my 6 month old exclusively so far
I'm also proud that I have faith in myself this time around to instinctively parent, utilise BLW, not vaccinate when the HV tells me to.
However, I'm ashamed that with my ds1 I gave up breastfeeding after 11 weeks because I just didn't enjoy feeding so frequently I had plenty of milk, no problems with latch, he was just soooo hungry almost all the time.
I realise that if I'd had a bit more support maybe I would've continued, but undiagnosed pnd put pay to that. I didn't want to admit that I had PND, stopping bf'ing was the least of my worries, I figured at least I'd tried. I'm also ashamed that with my dd I gave up at 4months when I went back to work, I could've expressed and conitnued with morning and evening feeding naturally.
I don't understand those women who choose to ff without even trying, there JV, that's my honest opinion. I understand perfectly that it's women's choices, I have no problem with that, I just don't understand. I do understand that there isn't enough supportand I can absolutely see that hunker can be frustrated that with a couple of posts she feels her extremely hard work is undone

Kerry,

I suffered from pnd after ds was born.

I b/f for 5 months. He screamed through almost every feed and HV/GP could give me no answer as to why. Far from being a bonding experience, it greatly increased by feelings of inadequacy and failing as a parent and I ended up in tears after many feeds.

It was therefore with relief that I gave it up. I was immeasurably happier after (not only did he not scream when being bottle fed, but I no longer had to express milk in the loos at work or find (usually depressing) places to feed him when out). This was one of the things that finally led to me bonding with him.

I know that in long term health terms this may have adverse health implications for ds (and me). I avoid thinking about this as it only adds to the crushing wieght of guilt I feel in relation to the way I parented ds when he needed me most.

Please do not add to that guilt. It does not help me or my son and you do so out of ignorance.

only read the OP and not even going to try and read the rest.

basicly i feel that there are a fair number of women who have BF and been made to feel odd for doing so.

in response they campaign tirelessly to raise the profile and support for breast feeding women.
in a small number of those women the campaign and their support for women who breastfeed can become a little too strong and they end up coming across very militant and they can appear judgmental towards those who choose to FF.

i dont think this is confined to Mn though.

Gooseyloosey, already emotional from writing my own post, yours has tipped me over. My heart goes out to you because I know exactly how that feels

Sorkycake - I have no problem with anything you have said at all.

Sorry you found it all so upestting, that must have been very hard for you.

In Scotland, where bf is not the norm (or at least is very highly post code related), I often feel contrained in mentioning breast feeding, for fear that I owuld appear judgemental. I find that very sad

I notice it most when people come in to work with their young babies, and almost without exception, they talk about how they are now bottle feeding because breast feeding "didn't work out". And everyone coos at the baby and says, "yes, I also found it difficult, so I bottle feed too". I feel very at both the lack of support that they received - plus I relasie that for most, they were never intending on feeding that long.

I feel I can never ask the question as to why they gave up, so I just keep quiet.

I think many breast feeder are alost embarrassed by thier success (and my own was hard fought by - with ds taking nearly 3 months to get properly established) and are actually fearful of offering advice for fear of being seen to pressurise. I know I was - all I ouw ddo was if someone talked about problems, I ouwld say that ds was diffiuclt ot get established but that I managed to fully feed him for 13 motnhs - and mae it clear that I was happy to offer help or advice if they wanted it.

But if they have already gone on to formula feeding, I owuld keep my mouth shut.

Kerry, you have clearly been through the mill....and that's sad

Sometimes, when people have struggled, they judge others who haven't, and as in your case, they think others 'deserve' criticism....or 'a bit of a hard time', just to even the score, so to speak !

It doesn't even the score, at all. It just creates more sadness.

I really have skimmed this topic, but I wasn't able to bf my first child as she was born prem and by the time she was allowed any milk I had dried up what little had started to produce, I bf my son til 8months and loved every minute of it. BUT I do feel mothers that bf are genuinely discriminated in the real world, the amount of times I got funny looks and/or comments regarding me feeding my child when out and about was ridiculous, I've had ppl say to me 'can't you do that elsewhere', now we wouldn't get that if we were putting a bottle in a babies mouth, and I think that is probably why many of us bf'ing mothers may have felt we had an unfair time.
I won't get into the whole bf/ff row because it really is personal choice (sometimes necessity), albeit a selfish one on many accounts.

I (foolishly?) didn't take a bottle with me to town this afternoon - DS3 woke up and started screaming (typical he usually has 1-2hrs at that time in the afternoon - today just 20 minutes ). Anyhow, sat on a bench in the shopping centre with him (after havint whipped out a nork) lady next to me turns round peers at me and gives me a funny look - so I was already to jump on the offensive.........then she looked again "oh sorry didn't realise you were feeding him - and went back to her cheese roll ) !

surely begs the question of what she thought you were doing with him QOQ?????/