is my hv talking nonsense? my baby is 23 days old and shes telling me to top up

[kittenbaby]

hi girls
my little baby is now 23 days old
i do find bf harder at night than in the morning [does sem to be less milk than in the mornings]
she is ex bf on demand
baby was born weighing 8 4 and a half
13 days later her weight went down to 7 11
hv said dd had to gain at least 4-5 oz in the next wk or we would have to rethink bf
and that maybe i should give her a formula top up
everything ive ive read says babys can and do lose weight in the 1st week or two
and one of the worse things to do to wreck bf is to give top ups of formula
so i decided to keep going only bf
then on tue one week after she was weighed again and had put on 6 and a half oz
weighing in at 8 1 and a half
so i thought yes shes put on more than 4-5oz
its working
but my hv still said that i should think about giving a top of formula
but will this make it harder for my baby to switch between the two?
or that if i dont want to give formula to express
what do you guys think should i be giving her tops ups ?
im only a first timer

my dd1 did this, she was born weighing 6lb 15oz went down to 6lb 4oz at week 1 and gradually krept back up to 6lb 15oz by week 3. She then slowly put on 4-5oz a week from then on and stayed at the 25% centile line. I think if she's having wet and pooey nappys is content and not screaming for more food then shes doing fine.

Stick to your guns kittenbaby. Your baby is gaining weight and the fastest way to wreck your chances of long-term bfing is to top up (I speak from experience ).

Oh, you poor thing. I am not an expert, but I would think that if you don't want to ff, don't. It's so hard, isn't it, when HVs say 'WE have to rethink this' - mine did to me, with DD2, and I was a hardbitten 40 year old on my second baby but I cried and cried (ask Aloha, I turned up at her house sobbing, and she took one look at DD2 and said 'she's bloody gorgeous, and fine, what are you worried about!' ).

I honestly don't think that without other causes for concern you shouldn't opt for a top up.

all i know is that if you bf in the early hours of the morning it will help with supply, something to do with prolactin levels. what advice has the HV given you to help your supply?

It took my ds 7 weeks to regain birth weight. I am not saying that is good - and I was greatly helped by the breast feeding counsellors at the maternity hopsital, who referred me to the consultant paediatrician just in case but.... to go by what he said (and also the breast feeding counsellors):

is your dd happy, healthy and alert? Are there plenty of wet and pooey nappies (the latter aren't so important now, as breast milk is such a "perfect" food, it doesn't necessarily generate as much pooh.

If so, stop worrying abut what she weighs and just enjoy your baby! Easier said than doen when you are a first timer though.

I agree kittenbaby, your baby sounds like she is doing fine. The most important thing is if you feel happy with what you are doing. I would avoid top-ups if at all possible. Life Miaou, I speak from experience that they can have a detrimental effect on your bf. Is she screaming with hunger after a feed or does she seem quite content?

sorry, i meant to say that for various reasons i ended off mix feeding and i thik part of the problem was i was 'encouraged' (hhhhm, blackmailed) into giving top-ups too early. however you don't want to be super-relaxed if the baby's not gaining, so i'd advise getting more bfing help, iykwim? looks to me like the baby is gaining, however... so don't be too hasty in introducing formula. my dd didn't regain her birth weight until 5 weeks, it was pretty harrowing i remember.

have you got a babycafe or access to bf counsellors where you are to chat it through with them?

your health visitor is talking bollocks and needs to be put infront of a firing squad. either that or retraining.

stick with what you are doing.

feeding at night is excellent. it is building your supply. practice feeding lying down and cosleeping. cosleeping aids breastfeeding and breastfeeding mums who cosleep get more sleep.

read here the only thing i fault with this page is saying that cosleeping is more popular in europe which i don't know is true. certainly isn't in the UK. the links at the bottom are also very good.

So long as you are happy with her nappies (iykwim) and she has alert periods please don't panic.

The night feeds are a pain aren't they? But as Aitch said it is the night feeds that raise your supply. Just keep trying to teach her night from day and feed on demand. It will soon settle down and she will pile on the wieght!
Also the charts are there as a guide. There will always be smaller babies and bigger babies that is how we are as adults so why should 23 day old babies be different?

A friend of mine is a very big lady and they took one look at her DS who is on the 3.5 line and told her he was not thriving. Her DH is a v small guy and DS takes after him not her. He is one of the happiest babies I know and eats loads!!

perhaps you could ask your HV to put you in contact with a breast feeding counsellor. there's bound to be one in your area.

My dd was about the same weight (8.5)and took more than 3 weeks to make it back up to birth weight. And those flipping charts are enough to make you go doolally

why are you expressing?

My ds was born at 8lb 2oz he dropped to 7lb 5oz in a week. I thought that seemed a lot but my midwives were great and just told me to carry on as I was with the breastfeeding, but to make sure that I did a couple of feeds during the night because as Aitch said your hormones that are linked to milk production are higher then (or something like that). Ds took a while to get back up to his birth weight, but then his growth was incredible. He regularly put on 10oz a week and was exclusively bf.

It sounds to me like you are doing great. My mw and hv's said that any weight gain was good. They would only worry if a baby hadn't gained any weight for more than a few weeks.

She's gaining now, it sounds as though you're doing fine (given all the standard stuff about being happy and alert and having plenty of wet and dirty nappies).

Don't give her top ups. And don't take her back to be weighed every week (really, almost everyone goes in happy and comes out completely paranoid about something they are doing or not doing -- it really saps your self-confidence, and as a first-time mother you really need your self-confidence). With a hypothetical DC2 I am not planning to get him/her weighed at all apart from the 8 week and 8 month checks.

It sounds as though you are doing really well!

Kiskidee is right, you need to find a wall, put your HV in front of it, and pull the trigger.

From what you've said, she's talking absolute nonsense. 6.5 oz is a very respectable weight gain in a week. And yes, it's common for babies to lose weight in the first couple of weeks. Keep going and ignore her.

You don't have to see the HV, you know, btw. If she gets on your wick, only go when you are worried about something (and if she says anything plain daft, either tell her 'no, I don't think that is a good idea, thanks' or just smile and nod).

not sure if this helps at the moment but if this continues.
www.newscientist.com/channel/health/mg19426014.100-babies-overfed-to-meet-flawed-ideal.html

Also like butterbear said those weekly weigh ins really didn't help.
you just want someone to tell you your doing things fine and instead you think your baby has alsorts wrong with it.

KB - what a shame you have such a poor health visitor. Any chance you can change her?

here's some facts:* weight loss in the first days is physiological - ie normal

• you have no way of knowing your baby's weight trajectory if there is no interim weight between birth and 13 days...it may be that your baby went below 7.11 and in fact it would be within normal limits if she did. This means your baby may have been gaining weight by day 13
• it is within normal limits for babies not to reach their birthweights for a couple of weeks or more
• a 6.5 oz weight gain is the upper end of an average weight gain in a week
• top ups of formula reduce the amount of breastmilj produced and reduce the chances of breastfeeding
• if your HV is worried about your baby's weight gain, she is incomptent if she does not indicate ways you can increase it by increasing the amount of breastmilk she has. You have the 'extra', you have the 'top ups' - they are in your breasts. Extra feeds, especially in the evening will increase the amount of milk getting into your baby. The other thing you might do is to give her two, three or four 'sides' at each feed.

All the above is factual. In addition, from what you say here, your baby is fine, and is thriving. Other signs would include several soft yellow poos a day (not skid marks), and her behaviour - keen to feed, shows contentment and satisfaction after a breastfeed, responsive and bright eyed when not asleep or 'full'.

I hope this helps. A call to one of the bf helplines will give you a bit of personal dialogue with someone who will not undermine you, too.

Grrrrrrr at your HV - what planet are these women on?

I hope Tiktok sees this thread because she's best qualified to comment.
My gut feeling (what I would personally do having bfed 3 of my own) is to stay with 100% BF for another week. Odds are very high that the weight gain will keep climbing nicely, 2 weeks to return to birthweight is the usual target.

You only just barely missed that, feeding is going well, and the rate of gain is good. No urgent need to supplement right now.

Oops, took to long to reply, didn't I?

at flack.

Jiust to correct something: when I said extra feeds in the evening, I meant at night. It's true about prolactin in the early days of bf, especially - it's more active at night.

Just wanted to add that although as tiktock says several poos is a good sign my DD was a bit odd and only pooed once every one or two days (once went 6 days without one with no ill effects at all). I think it is unusual but not neccessarily a sign that something is wrong on it's own.

well my hv advice about my milk was by day 21 its full fat and is as good as its going to get
i cant get out at moment due to recovering from repair op got 4th degree tears at the birth
but when i can get out ill def go to baby cafe
i think i might try one of the bf helplines

dd seems healthy to me but yesterday my mum changed her nappy and said her poo looked like it was tinged with green
i looked at it and it was very slightly tinged mum said
thats i sign there ill or not getting enough which has made me worry more
i never told my mum what the hv said as i know what mums like and she will put me off doing it even more
like when she said to me bf is ok as long as you dont flaunt it ffs
i havent hardly been outta the house
only to the local shop
she didnt bf my or my brothers so i think she feels she cant advise me
but i dont want her advice she just likes advising people !!
and my aunt her sister has already told me to put her on bottles for no reason
mums already told me i should me helping dh round the house more even though the surgeon who did my repair op told me to go really easy for 6 weeks and thats what me and my dh want me to do
i think mum thinks ive just had a few stiches
thankily dh is great and all me wants me to do is rest and feed our baby
and tells me im doing great
i couldnt cope without him
sorry to go on !!!

All the while DS was BF his poo was slightly green. I believe this is normal. Do not worry, you are doing the right thing. Do not let other peoples discomfort let you stop!

Oh God

When is someone going to compile a book of bad advice about breastfeeding by HV's and send it off to their regulatory body?

When are they going to be trained on the basics of breastfeeding?

Fucking fucking fucking fucking fucking stupid advice.

I sometimes wonder if all HV's are actually employed by Nestle, not the NHS.

Good luck ignoring her kittenbaby

yes, i think she is talking nonsense, listen to tiktok she knows her stuff!

i remember the evening feeds being hard, the baby may cluster feed, is less settled as its tired, you are tired but it is normal and the more you feed the more milk you will have, in the morning once you are rested (well partially!) your milk does seem to be more.

everything sounds normal, good luck.

my dd used to have green nappies occassionally then with some help from on here i realised it was when she was windy!

Sounds like you're doing fine to me, KB - stick with the BF! My HV was idiotic too but it's hard to know that when you're a first timer!