is my hv talking nonsense? my baby is 23 days old and shes telling me to top up

[kittenbaby]

hi girls
my little baby is now 23 days old
i do find bf harder at night than in the morning [does sem to be less milk than in the mornings]
she is ex bf on demand
baby was born weighing 8 4 and a half
13 days later her weight went down to 7 11
hv said dd had to gain at least 4-5 oz in the next wk or we would have to rethink bf
and that maybe i should give her a formula top up
everything ive ive read says babys can and do lose weight in the 1st week or two
and one of the worse things to do to wreck bf is to give top ups of formula
so i decided to keep going only bf
then on tue one week after she was weighed again and had put on 6 and a half oz
weighing in at 8 1 and a half
so i thought yes shes put on more than 4-5oz
its working
but my hv still said that i should think about giving a top of formula
but will this make it harder for my baby to switch between the two?
or that if i dont want to give formula to express
what do you guys think should i be giving her tops ups ?
im only a first timer

tictok she is a bit
shes prob y i am this way
she will more than likely go out of her way to have a go at me
she thinks bf should be done in private etc
but if i did that id never see anyone or ever go anywhere
as dd constanly wants bf
shes always saying things like sil always went upstairs to bf
because shes not like that
as if im sort of slut
even though im actually quite shy
would never have the confidence to go topless on holiday or anything

all i want is to my best for my dd

hey if anyone is wondering whether you need to feed with only one breast at a feed I read a great article that sorted things out in my head!!! have a read.....www.babyfy.com/index.php/features/2428/Geraldine-Miskin/Breastfeeding-in-the-real-wo rld----One-breast-or-two-/

Been away for a couple of days and only just read this thread.

Kittenbaby

Your HV wants lynching, she really does.

Nothing wrong with a 3.5oz weight gain in a week at all. She'd soon be a Michelin baby if she averaged a 7-8oz weekly gain. I know 'cos that is exactly what happened to my DD1 and by six months she was too fat to roll over and actually wheezed whenever she exerted herself! Stupid, stupid HV thought she and I were wonderful .

My DS, in contrast, only ever avaraged a 3-4 oz weight gain and soon dropped from the 95th percentile to the 9th and stuck there. HV tried to make me give up bf and ff instead but DS proved to have cows' milk intolerance and wouldn't countenance soya milk so went back to breast within 3 days (fortunately not off long enough to affect supply particularly).

It sounds to me like your DD is thriving fine and you and your DH are doing a grand job between you. Continue to concentrate on you and DD and don't start helping with chores until you feel able.

My kids are now teenagers and bright, healthy and normal. Neither is very tall for their age but then my DH and I are only 5'7" so they were never going to be giants! However they are not particularly small either so don't worry. All kids are individuals and find their own level. Weight gain will vary from week to week anyway. Even DD1 had the occasional week when she only put on an ounce or two (but then she'd make up for it with a 10/11oz gain the next week!)

Keep your chin up love. You're doing fine!

ah thanks fiddle that actually made me laugh which is a very good thing considering im actually feeling a bit depressed today

Also fwiw, Kitten, my 2 DSs:

DS1 ex bf for 6 months - put on a lb a week for the first 6 months and was huge - over 26lb by 1 year. Now v. healthy, slim 3 yr old, but v. tall.

DS2 ex bf for 4 months, then ff. He was much smaller all along, put on an average of 4-6 oz per week, and didn't put weight on any quicker once he was ff - stayed on same centile all along. (to clarify, I didn't swap to ff to try and get him to put on more weight, whole different story there). Now he's 2 weeks off being 1 and he's about 20 lb I think. Healthy and happy but a different shape and size to his brother.

So in conclusion from my two, switching to ff will NOT necessarily mean your DD puts weight on quicker. And from the sound of it, there is totally no need for her to put weight on quicker, or for you to do anything other than what you are doing already (apart from bash your hv over the head with a good dose of common sense and an education ).

Please please please do consider not going to see her again.

thanks hh x
itr true my two brothers are very different build wise

ive decided im gonna get a taxi to a different clinic next week
i think i need to avoid the hv as she s actually starting to make me feel depressed
im sure ill be driving again soon [hopefully]

thanks for taking the time to reply x

thats it ive decided im gonna dry my tears and take dd out for a nice long walk to get us bothy some fresh air and forget anout the idiotic hv and next week ill take a cab and go somewhere else to get dd weighed
or try and do it myself!

[kittenbaby smooths down her fur!and lol]

what sort of scales can i use ?
wonder if i could but some proper baby scales ?

Are you sure your baby needs to be weighed at all, KB?

There's a good argument for not bothering at all!

When you go to the other clinic, tell them why you are there!

Enjoy your wallk in the sun

There are some HVs out there who just should not be in the job because they are so out of touch with reality. The crap I have heard from some I have worked with is astounding.
Glad you are thinking of trying another clinic - just so hope you find more support there.

Just keep telling yourself that your DD is doing well because she is. Even if she DID start on the 75th centile it's not a rule she has to remain there. She has followed the 9th-25th growth curve for the last 7 weigh ins - that's her growth pattern - not the 75th - no matter what your HV is telling you. Hang on in there and keep telling yourself you are doing well because you are.

Hurrah for you, incognitoHV!!

Why do you think KB's HV is so poorly informed? I mean.....it's as clear as day her baby is growing exactly as nature intended

If it helps -

ds1 - born 98th centile, b/fed with formula topups from 10 days (15% weight loss, poor advice from professionals) - now age 6 on 9th centile.

dd - born 99th centile, b/fed exclusively, now 75th centile.

Ds2 - born 99.9th centile, b/fed exclusively, lost 12% weight, dipped to 2nd centile, now on 9th centile.

Have not read the whole thread but if your DD is gaining weight and is happy then I would not top up unless you want to. I found drinking plenty of fluids helped keep my milk supply up and apparenlty eating oats (porrige/flapjack etc) is good for producing milk too.

I gave DS1 formula top-ups in the evening and he stayed on the centile he was born on.
I ex BF DS2 and although he dropped a couple of centiles after birth he then stayed there and was just as happy/healthy as his topped-up brother had been.

Nobody knows your baby like you do, esp not your HV who sees her rarely. If she is happy and you are happy then keep up the good work x

KB

Just wanted to add my support. I think you are doing an amazing job:

Exclusively bf your dd (hard, hard work in the early weeks)

Fending off the utter bunkum from your HV

Dealing with stitches and recovering from the birth

Taking the time to try and understand why your mum is not supportive of you bf

All I can add is that there have been a few threads here where the consensus of opinion has been that we are more likely to face negative comments about bf from our mothers than strangers. 'Tis strange but true and I think it stems from their fears and insecurities.

BTW my ds was a tiny little scrap and I really struggled to feed him for a long time. He stayed at around the 5th peercentile for at least 6 months - and sometimes it was hard not to want to ff. But I stuck at it, and now, at 2years old he is on the 75th centile and really quite a porker!

Keep going lady - bf gets better and better.

I used to put ds in a roasting tin on our normal kitchen scales.

Lovely with a couple of yorkshire puds

Ah - there's the golden question tiktok. KBs HV is probably poorly trained, evidently has not bothered to update herself and just plain lazy IMHO.

I actually think she sounds quite dangerous and I am shocked that she can look at a baby thriving on the growth curve that kb's DD is and suggest adding formula.

More worrying is the fact that this is the advice she is giving all new parents. I dread to think what else she is advising on. Would be very interesting to know when she advises weaning....

mcnoodle

Sounds delicious.

Well the fact that I refused to ff meant that he wasn't too fatty

Ok, am disturbing self now - will leave work early and go make an enormous shepherd's pie

Good luck KB - stick to your guns and use MN for advice.

Kitten, my ds2 was 10lbs 2oz when he was born and on the 98th centile. After that he went steadily down and settled between the 25th and 50th. So birthweight is only an indicator of how well nourished they were inside, rather than how big they are supposed to be.

If your dd had been born on the 9th centile then goe up to the 75th you can be sure the HV wouldn't be telling you to feed less because she was getting bigger than she was meant to be. So why is she making such a fuss about your baby fining her own natural level?

You are doing so well to still be bfing, with your mum and your HV against you, it's a tough old thing to do even with lots of support so keep going and do your best to either ignore them both or give them what for!

Remember if you go to a different clinic, the scales may be different, so take whatver weight your dd is with a pinch of salt.

FWIW - my ds used to gain only a few ounces a week - I'd have been overjoyed at 4 oz!

But he was happy, healthy and alert: the midwives at the brastfeeding support group I went to (run by the maternity Hopsital) said he was a classic case of a non failure to thrive baby who wasn't following the growth charts. They wanted to use himas a case study to show that growth charts were not be be-all and end-all of a baby's health - that you need to look at the baby too and not just the scales!

BTW - they did also cover their backsides and refer me to the consultant paediatrican, who I saw at c.7 or 8 weeks, and who took one look at ds, who had dropped from 91st centil at brith, to below th charts and who was now gradually moving back into the charts, saw a healthy child and to stop with the faff of expressing and get on with enjoying my baby!

Hi kitten, so sorry that your HV is making you feel so sad. It sounds like your little girl is happy and healthy and you are doing a great job feeding her. Just to reassure you that your hv is talking rubbish, I took my DS to be weighed today and was told for the 4th time "don't worry if he doesn't stay on that centile and drops to a lower one" - this is from 3 different hvs and 1 gp. He has dropped below the centile he has been on for some time and the hv's reaction was "well done for breastfeeding". This is what your hv (and your mother) should be saying to you but as they are not, I'll say it:

WELL DONE KITTEN

Well said pretty bird. If all HVs, GPs, etc stopped just looking at the bloody chart and started looking at the baby beyond the chart then some of this crap advice might stop.

Just to illustrate - I saw an 11lb baby yesterday who was off the charts at birth and who is being bf. At 4 weeks he's just regained his birth weight BUT is a healthy thriving baby - you just have to look at him to see it. He was off the chart at birth but is adjusting onto around the 91st and may even go to the 75th.
His Mum has masses of milk and certainly doesn't need to add any formula - it scares me though that some HVs might actually say "Oooh - only just back to birth weight - you need to add some formula to keep up with him" when any idiot can see that he is a baby just adjusting to a whichever growth curve he plans to follow.

Right - am really off to change back to my normal MN name - really must stay away from these HV threads but there are some crap ones out there and I get so riled when I see some stuff written here. I hate it because it tars us all with the same brush.

Incognito I had a crap one, I transferred to a lovely on made a formal complaint against the initial one she denied that she had breached my confidentiality so it was her word against my childminders and mine (2 seperate incidents) and the PCT did naff all.

But you're not all tarred with the same brush so stress not!

hi it me again !!...sorry!

it weigh in day tomorrow
and i know you all think i shouldnt get dd weighed, but i feel i really have to

but my point is if the hv again tells me to top up ive decided to a least challenge her instead of saying nothing

like at least asking why ?!

last week she said to me most mums have there babys on formula by now dd is 9 weeks
or at least on top ups

if she tells me again to top up
im gonna have to try a ask her if she thinks theres a problem with dd, and if so shouldnt i being refered to someone that can at least try and help us instead of just saying top up top up top up

as you can see im pysicing myself up for tomorrow
time i stopped just siting there saying nothing
think i just find it difficult saying anything as shes v anti bf with hr comments such as looney left wing bf bridaged etc

also i still cannot drive so i cant really go to another clinic yet

Oh my goodness! Looney left wing ..... She really should be reported for that! If she doesn't want to support bf, then she should NOT work for the NHS. As for "most mums have their babies on formula by 9 weeks" - Good God. That's nonsense, misleading, and if her clients fall into that group then it sounds like it's HER fault. Get the NHS and UNICEF guidelines, kb, and ask her why, as a health professional, she's not using the best recent research to support her judgements.