is my hv talking nonsense? my baby is 23 days old and shes telling me to top up

[kittenbaby]

hi girls
my little baby is now 23 days old
i do find bf harder at night than in the morning [does sem to be less milk than in the mornings]
she is ex bf on demand
baby was born weighing 8 4 and a half
13 days later her weight went down to 7 11
hv said dd had to gain at least 4-5 oz in the next wk or we would have to rethink bf
and that maybe i should give her a formula top up
everything ive ive read says babys can and do lose weight in the 1st week or two
and one of the worse things to do to wreck bf is to give top ups of formula
so i decided to keep going only bf
then on tue one week after she was weighed again and had put on 6 and a half oz
weighing in at 8 1 and a half
so i thought yes shes put on more than 4-5oz
its working
but my hv still said that i should think about giving a top of formula
but will this make it harder for my baby to switch between the two?
or that if i dont want to give formula to express
what do you guys think should i be giving her tops ups ?
im only a first timer

Kitten, from talking to my mum, it sounds like the advice they were given when they had us was very different to the advice that is around now. Perhaps you could explain to your mum that she needs to realise that research and studies have been done since your mum had you and as a result advice from healthcare professionals has changed. Also, we ourselves are so much better informed because of the internet and pre/post natal groups we go to. If it's any consolation your Mum sounds just like mine. I completely horrified her this morning by telling her that i sometimes sleep with 10 wk old DS in my bed.. "rod for your own back" "you'll roll over and kill him" "should be in his own room" .... blah blah!!!
It is upsetting when your mum doesn't support your choices though isn't it? It sounds like you have great support from your dh, could you do to a mum and baby group? There will be lots of ladies with the same concerns as you there.

Hi Kitten

Yes,i think a lot of the reason people 'blank out' the undeniable benefits of breastfeding is through guilt or anger or sheer miscomprehension. Looking after and breastfeeding a baby is a fulltime job and your energies are best directed at this,the most important job you will ever do.

Bollocks to the housework!

If she is so concerned,suggest she does a spot of vacuuming/ironing/cooking for you.

Kitten - have just been through this myself. See this thread Got great advice for MNetters & best thing I ever did was see b/f advisor at my local hosp. Can you find an advisor or support group locally? I have been able to ditch the formula & if I feel my DD needs top up then I use EBM. Being told I needed to ff because my baby was not thriving was very demoralising & now that she is steadily gaining weight without it I am glad I sought alternative advice. Best of luck.

im so glad ive discovered mn this is the best place for advice

twofalls def think theres somekind of element of my mum thinking because im determined to do this its making heer feel funny that she didnt but likewise my mum was told she didnt have enough milk
which is strange that what shes trying to say to me now
i think its true that its often because people have there own issues whn they react strongly u r so right one that one xx

difers im sure she does feel that she was a bit hard done by and had no help from dad but really she should b happy tims have changed and men are more equals these days
and happy i have more support from dh than she had from my dad not still a bit bitterabout it ive actually lost count of all the times shes said your dad never did anything with you kids never did a nappy blah blah

moondog think mum may very well feel some of those things about guilt and anger from not bf herself because when i tried to tell her why i wanted to do it and show her the book that listed all the benefits she just poo pooed it and basically refused to ackowledge that there really is any benefit to bf at all [ other and respiratory] dont know why the hell shes even picked up on that one
she really seems to begrudge that fact dh doesnt mind doing the chores
because hes doing the chores theres nothing that really needs doing.also i wouldnt want her really to do anthing like that for me/us because she will prob hold it against us for ages and if anything ever happens in the future she be all like "well u didnt mind my help when you had the baby and i helped do your housework blah blah even if she only once did some washing or something"in a throw it back in your face kinda way. thats why i nver told her what the hv said as i knew she'd be straight on it.
dh is an accountant works mon to friday 9-5 so its not like hes down the mines or digging all day or somthing and like hes says if he lived on his own he would have to do it and its no bother bunging a shepards pie in the oven from tescos
thanks goodness i have him

zebadee thats just what shes like has opinions on EVERYTHING like even how many kids you should have and how far apart etc

talluahbelle thanks for the advice ive read your thread x well done you for perservering i 2 know how tough it can be to stick with it

thanks xxxx

keep up the good work, kitten, you're doiing great.

glad you feel supported here and with by your dh.

As a slight aside it's just occurred to me when they go on about a mum not being able to produce enough milk to feed a big baby.........errr who produced enough to get it that big via it's placenta.......hmmmmmm

I was told all the you'll have to top her up, you have to wake her at night and feed her, you'll have to wean early stuff.......thank goodness I'd researched lots before she was born!

What a great dh you have!

I was far from family too and like you say,doing a few chores and a spot of heating up of meals is hardly backbreaking for anyone,let alone the father of the baby is it?

Hope all continues to go well.

Please let us know if your HV comes out with more bullshit.

hi girls
just thought id give you a quick update
had my6-8 week check up with the gp today and baby saskia is fine and well yippie!!!
my gp said baby looks really healthy and well
gp said he thinks dd is gaining weight fine
dd is 7 weeks tomorrow
last week she gained a 8 and a half oz
and this week [well six days ] she gained 6 and a half oz

im still finding the bf tiring because dd wants it all the time
thats the only thing i still need to work on
ive tried expressing but can only get about 2 and a half fl oz so thats not enough really for dh to do it for the night
i wonder if its just that my milk is slow to come out and thats why dd feeds alot ?
could this be why?

anyway just wanted to say thanks for giving me the confidence to ignore hv shit advice and carry on exc bf my baby xxxx
lots of love kitten xxxx

Brilliant, KB! Well done!

You can express a bit at a time and combine in the fridge to give as one bottle, if you want to - or try giving her 2.5oz to start with to see how she takes it.

Having a 7wo baby IS tiring. It's a huge adjustment to make, you'll be getting over the birth, etc, etc.

Try having a day where you doze and DH brings your DD to you to feed and does the rest of her care, maybe?

Can you feed lying down? I found that the best way to get as much rest as I could in the early weeks.

Well done! Sounds like you've done a fantastic job.

DS really spaced out his feeds a lot (well, comparatively) between 8 and 12 weeks. Your DD certainly won't be feeding so frequently for ever.

kitten - great news and thanks for the update.

You might want to think about complaining about your HV.

The amount you are getting wih expressing is normal. Some people get more, some get less. I would say 2.5 ounces is about average.

Think of other ways to help the night feeds go more easily - co-sleeping?

Your baby feeds a lot because it is normal to feed a lot - maybe your milk flow is slower than another mother's whose baby feeds less, maybe your 'storage' capacity is smaller. But it doesn't matter. You and your baby have adapted to each other beautifully, and you have grown in confidence

kittenbaby, that's fantastic . Well done for ignoring the stupid HV and keeping going.

I wouldn't worry too much about the amount you're expressing or the frequency of her feeding. I could never get much more than a couple of ounces of EBM at 7 weeks, especially if I only did one side. I found that by 9/10 weeks ds2 was going longer between feeds so I got a bit more. It is really draining when you feel as though you're bf constantly but as she gets bigger and her tummy can hold more it eases off.

At 9 weeks or so, I spent a few days building up a bit of EBM in the freezer so I had enough for a full feed, then dh would do the 11pm ish feed and I'd express from both sides so I got a full feeds' worth of EBM. That way, if ds2 skipped a feed or was a couple of hours late having it I could put the EBM in the freezer and built up a bit of a stock.

Well done Kitten! It sounds like your DD is doing really well and growing fast! I'm glad mumsnet helped you to continue feeding as you wanted to. It is knackering though isn't it? My DS is 14 weeks and only this week has he "eased up" a bit and started to go longer between feeds. I've also started expressing using an avanti pump. I do it in the morning after a hot bath or shower and watch my DS playing on his playmat whilst i do it. Seems to work OK, now I just have to get the little bugger to take the bottle

feeling complte and utter shit today
im actually sitting here with tears streaming down my face

dd had her weigh in agian today
only gained 3 and a half oz
and again ive been told top up with formula again

i dont know what im hoping your gonna say different from last time

i know your gonna say stop getting her weighed but i cant as im too worried shes only 8 weeks and my 1st baby
just dont know what to do
i feel like im harming dd im someway doing something detrimental to her health
when im trying to do bend of backwards to do somthing im finding very hard
i really am on the verge of stopping today

Aw....KB, you are really sufferng

But your baby isn't at all!

It would be astonishing if your baby continued to gain 6.5 oz and 8.5 oz every week.....it hardly ever happens. Weekly weighing is not really advisable, because you don't get a good idea of the overall pattern. Having said that, lets add up the weight gain over three weeks and average it out - it comes to 18.5 ounces. This is bang on in the middle of average (which is 4-8 ounces).

Please do phone one of the bf support lines - I am sure it will help.

The HV - you already know - is not supportive and not knowledgable.

KB - have just read all through this thread. Firstly - your HV needs to be shot. The stuff she has come out with is disgusting quite franky and needs reporting asap to her boss.

Secondly - your little one has gained 3.5 ounces - that's great and she has gained 8.5 and 6.5 in other weeks but she won't do that every single week. She sounds like she's doing well and I honestly cannot understand why your HV seems so keen for you to add formula - it's not something I would advise given the weight gains she's had.
I would say that if you want to carry on with breastfeeding then do so and ignore your HV and any other person who gives you negative comments.

You are not harming your DD - you are giving her an absolutely fabulous start to life.
Where is she on those centile charts - is she dropping through them because unless she's gone down more than two centiles then I wouldn't even be noticing it. Also - it's worth remembering that some babies take a while to adjust to the centile line they will eventualyy follow. If your DD seems otherwise fine and you want to carry on then do. Avoid baby clinic and this crap HV and weigh your DD yourself at home.

Personally I think you have a great deal to complain about with your HV - poor advice, poor support and absolutely no encouragement in your abilities as a mum.

ticktoc
i wish you where my hv
you know so much
i know this hv doesnt know much but
she seems hell bent on getting dd on formula

oh KB, hang in there and stick to your guns! 3.5 oz is fine, really. Babies don't read centile charts they don't know they're 'supposed' to gain the same amount every week or else

I had a very similar thing when ds was about 8 weeks - we took him to the dr for something else, dr weighed him and said 'if he doesn't gain at least 130g (WTF) over the next week you must (WTF) top up'. Was devastated as we had only just got him off top-ups and onto exclusive bf. But soon calmed down and saw sense. As it happened, ds gained 200g that week - his biggest gain ever, 100g (just under 4 oz) was more usual for him. He's small but healthy and fine

(sorry, should clarify - we did not top up )

I think it's so sad that all your hard work is being constantly undermined.

I would agree that weekly weigh-ins are excessive. You're your baby's mother and you're the expert. It's hard first time round but trust yourself that your baby is healthy and gorgeous and that you're doing a brilliant job. It's so much easier the second time when you can be confidently set in your ways.

Hope the braestfeeding continues to go well.

Hi Kittenbaby, just wanted to add my support to all the others who have told you you're doing a great job! Keep at it, those centile charts were based on 1970s formula fed babies, and bf babies are totally different. Average it out over three or four weeks and she is doing fine. If she is happy, alert and not still looking for food after you've fed her, she's doing fine.

My HV was great and told me to ignore the centiles for the reason above.

Best of luck, practise going 'la la la I can't hear you' in your head when your HV visits!

hv says she needs to gain 6oz-8oz a week at least

dd started on out birth weigh nearly on the 75th line
now shes inbetwen 9th and 25th

Yep - centile charts need to be looked at with a healthy does of reality. Look at the baby and NOT the centile chart.

KB - you might find though that your DD will average out on the 9th -25th line - it might well be normal for her. Also - how accurate was her birth weight? I've seen several babies who've seemingly dropped through the centiles (and who were absolutely fine).

What has she been on over the last few weeks? Given her weight gains I'd bet she's starting to follow between the 9th to 25th.