is my hv talking nonsense? my baby is 23 days old and shes telling me to top up

[kittenbaby]

hi girls
my little baby is now 23 days old
i do find bf harder at night than in the morning [does sem to be less milk than in the mornings]
she is ex bf on demand
baby was born weighing 8 4 and a half
13 days later her weight went down to 7 11
hv said dd had to gain at least 4-5 oz in the next wk or we would have to rethink bf
and that maybe i should give her a formula top up
everything ive ive read says babys can and do lose weight in the 1st week or two
and one of the worse things to do to wreck bf is to give top ups of formula
so i decided to keep going only bf
then on tue one week after she was weighed again and had put on 6 and a half oz
weighing in at 8 1 and a half
so i thought yes shes put on more than 4-5oz
its working
but my hv still said that i should think about giving a top of formula
but will this make it harder for my baby to switch between the two?
or that if i dont want to give formula to express
what do you guys think should i be giving her tops ups ?
im only a first timer

You can stop getting her weighed. Think about it -- the reason that you are worried is that this loon of a HV is making you worried. You are doing everything right. Your DD is gaining weight at an average rate. You sound as though you know a heck of a lot more about what you are doing than your HV does. You have no need to be worried but she is getting hold of you and making you feel insecure.

Or if you can't stop cold turkey, try spacing your visits out more -- take her every month, rather than every week.

I can only try and reassure you again perhaps your dd is always going to be between the 9th & 25th centile. Big birth weight does not indicate that a baby is always going to be big, if that were the case dd2 would be about 5' at the age of five, she didn't hit the height centiles until she was 6 months olds because she was so unusually tall.

Please stop visiting your HV, your baby will be fine, you'll know if she's not.

kb, I'd totally agree with "look at the baby, not the centile chart".

Dd2 was above the 50th centile when born, and now, at 26 weeks (totally bf until starting weaning last week) is just above the 2nd. She is, however, lively, happy, alert and producing plenty of wet nappies.

she is also fairly chubby (see pics in profile). She just doesn't seem to weigh very much.

My hv was concerned when she saw what weight dd2 was, until she took a look at dd2 herself. What she saw was a perfectly happy baby. And she relaxed (well, a little - she is now encouraging me to add cheese and cream to everything dd2 eats, to fatten her up a bit - she really does not need fattening up, she's just one of life's smaller babies).

I did have the odd moment of worry, but then I realised that dd1 is on 98th centile, and no-one ever told me that she was worryingly large. They just looked at the overall picture and realised she is happy. I do the same for dd2.

yes it was only dd birth weight that was on the 75th
the nxt time she was weighed after that was at day 13
then she dropped to between the 9th and 25th and has continued between this line last 7 times all roughly follow this line

surely the birth weight doesnt me than much
like are they full of fluid etc at birth

they are full of meconium, birth weight seems to be dependent on what the mum grows them to rather than what they are going to be. Both me & my Mum grow them big even though we are both tiny and my dds vary despite being whoppers at birth

Just seen this and wanted to say that you are doing brilliantly - it's fantastic you are still bf despite the crap advice and pressure from your hv.

I understand how worrying it is - I also had a dd who 'dropped' through the centiles and there were some weeks when she only gained 0.5 oz - those were the weeks when my hv scared me by using words like "malabsorption syndrome" (wtf)

However, I went to see a bf counsellor at the hospital and stuck to my guns - it was very hard to keep going but dd was ex bf till 5 months and she was absolutely fine. I think the advice here about weighing every 3-4 weeks instead of every week is spot on.

Good luck and don't let your hv upset you.

so you dd has been following the centiles for 7 weeks and not dropped!!!

Your HV needs reporting, there is NOTHING wrong with your dd's weight gain because SHE IS following a centile

KB, even on your HV's ridiculously prescriptive assessment, your baby is fine. There should be some info in your red book about rate of weight gain which might help you.

Charts (not based on formula fed babies of the 70s at all, BTW, but on relatively recent UK babies whose feeding is not differentiated) seem to be held in some sort of awe by your HV....very, very poor practice. Many babies undergo 'catch down' growth over the first weeks, when they find their natural, physiological growth rate, just as some small babies undergo 'catch up' growth. This is all perfectly healthy.

Can you return to the doctor who gave you a boost last week?

Can you copy this thread and send it to your HV's boss?

That's a classic catch-down growth pattern -- not at all uncommon for a baby to be born at a relatively high weight and then drift down the centiles, find his/her proper place, and then follow that. If your HV weren't a loon she would know that.

If you were to fatten your DD up at the rate the HV seems to want it would be bad for her and potentially lay the groundwork for obesity and health problems in later life.

brendar75 - tiktok will come on and tell you that the charts are NOT based on formula fed babies and the problem is not the chart, but the way that the dumb-ass HVs interprets it!

Kittenbaby - if it's any comfort to you, my ds (now 22 months and still feeding) went up and down the centiles like a yo-yo. Luckily for my HV she never uttered the word formula, although another one did mention baby rice later on (too early) which I ignored.

As others have said, you don't need to see your HV if you don't want to. If you do want your dd weighed, you could try and guess what crock of shit she is going to come out with this time and have a wee laugh to yourself when she comes out with one of her gems!!

You are doing GREAT.

oh x-post tiktok

thankyou for all your replies
id love to have the confidence to not get dd weighed but i just dont
i havent been able to take dd to any other clinics so far
as im still recovering from a horrendeous major repair after giving birth to dd
which also makes me feel totally shit
but im gonna try and get to go to a diiferernt clinic even if i have to get a lift/taxi etc
it would be so different for me to see a hv that was a more supportive of bf

yes i was thinking of going to see my gp that i saw last week

although i do feel the hv should be complained about i try to avoid any confrontation in life at all
but i think it would help other mums
i wonder if she says this shit to them
maybe i could tell my gp as this hv is the one at my gps practise?

KB, yes, do tell your GP. Don't be afraid to show how upset you are about it, too. Is your partner supportive? Can he maybe come with you to see the GP?

I understand about your feelings towards confrontation. Is there also an issue about authority figures, too, perhaps - bad school experiences, a parent who was over-bearing and scary?

These feelings are hard to get over, and when we have babies, they emerge again, even more powerfully than before

KB - based on what your DDs centile charts are showing (and I am not the biggest fan of centile charts) there is no problem. The only time your DD was on the 75th line was at birth - since then she has followed a growth curve between the 9th - 25th centile. Honestly - I think you are doing fantastically well with her. If I was your HV I'd be over the moon with how your DD is growing and I'd probably be querying if the birth weight was accurate.

As someone else says - practice pretending you've got your fingers in your ears going "tra la la can't hear you" when you see your HV and just watch your DD thrive on breastfeeding and following the growth curve she is on.

my dh is supportive and says im doing great im sure he would come with me

i could actually say to gp hv has told me to top up what do you think
gp said only last week im doing a great job

tiktoc it could be my mum that makes me feel that way she is v v unsupportive of bf
dont know if you saw my other thread about bf in public
but it was basically me saying it was our wed anniversary at the weekend and id have tofeed dd in public?
well
im actually dreading her asking me how we got on whn we went out for a meal because she will prob directly ask me if i fed her when i was out etc
to have a go at me and tell me its disgusting even if i try to avoid it by say if she says did you have a nice time and all i say is yeah great thanks
she wont leave it at that

Who was the poster who insisted that she'd never heard of a breastfeeder being persuaded to give formula?
What planet was she on?
Kittenbaby, I'm really sorry that someone whose job it is is to support you and act in the best interests of your baby is doing the exact opposite. It is terrible. There you are, doing this wonderful, amazing job, feeding your baby on the absolute best stuff on earth, and she's growing splendidly on it, and every week this vile witch undermines you and insults your hard work.
I want to go round and slap the hag, I really do.
PLEASE don't let her make you feel bad. You will look back at this when your dd is older and your confidence has grown and you will realise what a terrible HV you had.
I know you say you feel you cannot stop weighing your daughter, but I wish you could. I never got my daughter weighed. Her weight chart has literally got two entries on it. She was FINE! Your daughter is absolutely fine. The weight rollercoaster that so many mothers are put on is a disgrace to the NHS, it really is.

Don't ask your GP - say, I am sure my baby is fine and breastfeeding is going well, but I am coming under constant pressure to give formula and it is really upsetting and undermining me.
Also, remember, GPs can be equally ignorant about breastfeeding.
I have two children, and breastfed ds for a year (mixed fed) and dd (only ever breastmilk) for two years. The only sensible advice out there is from specialist breastfeeding counsellors (and not even then, frankly) and MN!

kittenbaby, is there a breastfeeding support group in your area? At my doctor's there are signs up for a weekly drop in coffee/chat thing specifically aimed at helping breastfeeding. If there aren't signs at the doctors, maybe you could phone the hospital? Or phone LaLeche League, or NCT, they will be able to put you in touch with a group hopefully.

Also wanted to add my at your hv. She is talking out of her arse. You are doing a brilliant job.

KB - how about instead of saying to your GP 'HV has said top up, what do you think?' be more direct.

'I feel certain my baby is fine, and I feel very happy about breastfeeding, but I become upset when I see the HV as she seems to be giving me poor information - can you confirm for me my baby is fine continuing on breastmilk only?'

Your mum sounds a piece of work, sorry

id love to do that hh
but i had 4th degree tears after childbirth and a major repair op which is still causing me physical problems and its hard for me to get anywhere as im physically not really well enough to drive
but i will phone one of the support lines when ive managed to stop crying
otherwise they wont be able to understand me
think im a hormonal mess today or something

kb, you are doing an absolutely fantastic job. Your baby is putting on weight just as she should. Your HV is a total nutcase, and should be at the very least retrained.

PLEASE don't lose confidence. Are you particularly tall? Or your dh? If you're about average, then you wouldn't expect your baby to be on the 75th centile.

Your HV should be shot. WHat is the point of a health professional who simply undermines mums, and upsets them? If you can see another HV, you could find it makes all the difference.

Incidentally, if your baby DOES need more milk, then you can give her more breastfeeds. First stop doesn't need to be the bottle of formula.

I don't do hugs as a rule, but I'd like to give you one.
Then give your mum & HV a big fat slap
Honestly, they are making you so miserable and you are doing so brilliantly and being so brave. I despair.

One thing I must say, is that it sounds as if your mum has a lot of issues with her own failed breastfeeding, and they are coming out now.

Hi. This is my first time but your message struck a chord. Wisest piece of information that I can fwd is to remember that those height/weight charts were designed with bottle fed babies in mind, so bare no connection to the weight of a breast fed baby.
Hang in there, get as much rest as poss., drink loads and try to eat.