is my hv talking nonsense? my baby is 23 days old and shes telling me to top up

[kittenbaby]

hi girls
my little baby is now 23 days old
i do find bf harder at night than in the morning [does sem to be less milk than in the mornings]
she is ex bf on demand
baby was born weighing 8 4 and a half
13 days later her weight went down to 7 11
hv said dd had to gain at least 4-5 oz in the next wk or we would have to rethink bf
and that maybe i should give her a formula top up
everything ive ive read says babys can and do lose weight in the 1st week or two
and one of the worse things to do to wreck bf is to give top ups of formula
so i decided to keep going only bf
then on tue one week after she was weighed again and had put on 6 and a half oz
weighing in at 8 1 and a half
so i thought yes shes put on more than 4-5oz
its working
but my hv still said that i should think about giving a top of formula
but will this make it harder for my baby to switch between the two?
or that if i dont want to give formula to express
what do you guys think should i be giving her tops ups ?
im only a first timer

gogetter, what you are encouraging the mother in your care to do is not good for her long-term breastfeeding.

Waking up with extra-full breasts not having fed in the night will reduce her supply.

It is too dogmatic to say expressing is 'always' a good idea, as well.

Sorry to be blunt

kitten...is there no end to the rubbish your HV can come up with ???

Giving a formuls topup will have no effect at all on the thickness of your milk - do ask her how she thinks it will...

lol tiktoc im starting to wonder what shes gonna come up with next !!
where does she think this stuff up!!

maybe i should ask her how its gonna thicken my own milk ?
then i could show her that nhs guide i got from antenatal class it does have a date on it of 2005, and say why does this offical nhs guide give all these reason not to use formula top ups ?
when you say there is not reason not to?
be very funny to see what shes says then!!

but knowing her she will prob come out with one of pearls of wisdom !!
some other crap shes just made up

Your baby sounds absolutely fine but if you want rid of your HV you could use this sneaky idea. Cluster feed your baby just before her next weigh in. She will then have a tummy full of milk which will show on the scales - ie won't have had time to wee or poo it out. From my own experience of a dodgy HV worrying about my ds1's weight gain when I was sure he was OK it works a treat

I love this stuff about thickness of milk, how imaginative!

Shouldn't we start a Loony Left Wing Breastfeeding Brigade? Or at least get some tshirts made?

if you do i'll be expecting my usual cut, nqc.

kittenbaby, kiss your dh for us all tonight, he sounds like a one in a million. and you are doiing really, really, really, really well to have persevered in that face of all this stoopid advice, truly you are. i wish i'd been more like you and i wish i'd found MN sooner. well done, you be proud of yourself.

I think you should write a letter to the Primary Care Trust stating what your HV has told you and asking them to provide adequate training so that your HV has up to date information and is able to provide appropriate advice and proper patient care.

You could print off our comments just so the suit at the PCT is made fully aware of the rubbish she is spouting. I know that you are probably too tired to do this in reality.

Jeezuz Kitten,what a fucking idiot.

Please do challenge idiot HV if you are up to it. She will ruin breastfeeding for many other women doubtles.

Good for you for seeing sense (not easy in post natal haze) and your dh sounds like a love.

KB, your HV is a total nob

I'd be tempted to report her.....

Sounds like you are doing great

HV nobbery endemic in NHS sadly.

That formula comment is grossly unprofessional. That alone should be grounds for disciplinary action.

what is it with health visitors????
mine told me to give formula, cos it would mean i had more milk i don't think so, she also told me to wean ds when he was 11 weeks old 'cos he's a big baby'
honestly i think they're on another friggin planet. don't listen to her, she's clearly incompetent and not properly trained.
you sound like you are doing a fantastic job, keep going happy in the knowledge you are doing the best for your baby.
congratulations, and what a lovely dh you have too

Oh God yes,I remember Daisy.

You were having to fend off a nobboid HV too weren't you??

yeah i complained about her in the end. she was coming out with so much shit. like formula would increase my supply of breastmilk, that the best time to give formula is at night, and that my baby would never survive on breastmilk alone till 6 months (ds survived on breastmilk alone til 5.5months and dd is 6 months on weds and so far has had only bm and is perfectly fine)
not that making a complaint actually got me anywhere. practice manager couldn't have been less interested, and head honcho of the health visitors said 'oh dear, maybe we could think about getting her some more training' yeah right. i'm sure that'll happen
it makes me so cross that these people get paid money to spout all this crap to new mums, most of whom will believe all the rubbish that their HV's come out with.

Dreadful
Did you put your complaint into a letter to head of midwifery?

It can't be ignored then.

I work in NHS and written complaints are taken very seriously indeed.

daisy you need to complain the GMC.

It sounds like your baby is doing really well, putting on 6 1/2 oz in a week is great! My HV told me to "top up" my 10 day old porker with formula at night even though he was gaining weight because "he's so big he'll never get enough breastmilk to sleep longer than a few hours and you need to sleep". What rubbish, he only ever wakes once during the night! I guess what i'm saying is that your HV's advice is just advice, you know your baby best.

I gave up bf my first 2 dcs because of the same crap advice. They hadn't regained their birthweight by 3 weeks and I was put under masses of pressure to give formula. Not knowing any better I did. By dc3 I was determined, better informed and ignored hvs. I got loads of support from on here and it took 5 and a half weeks but he eventually regained his birtweight at an oz or 2 a week, then started putting on 5-6 oz a week and we've never looked back. Ignore, ignore, ignore!

Don't know if the OP will read this far as there have already been lots of replies. FWIW I'm also a HV and I would say your baby is doing well. Your DD lost a bit of weight - lots of babies do but she's regained it - and an excellent weight gain too. I don't see what your HV is concerned about. I'd say carry on with what you are doing and ignore her - it might help to know that most HVs have little or no training in breastfeeding - they may know the mechanics but that's often where it begins and ends. Your breast milk is far more helpful than any "top up" would be. Well done for persevering.

I'd also add to the people saying "complain". It's only by making complaints that things will change. Try the Community Manager of your local PCT or PALS (Patient Advice and Liason Service) for your area.

...and Zebedee1 I am utterly shocked by what your HV advised.

My second baby was very sleepy after birth. My HV told me that if he didn't wake up enough to get a good BF within 3 hours, she would have to give him a bottle of muck.

1. If he was too sleepy to BF, he would be to sleepy to drink from a bottle.

2. I wasn't going to give my child anything that a health professional calls 'muck' FFS.

I have exclusively fed two big boy babies and their poo was often green. They are now both strapping great healthy lads.

It's hard to respect someone when they give such piss-poor advice isn't it? You are doing such a great job.

morning guys
just wanted to let you know i am still reading this thread and will do to the very end
im very thankful for every single reply because you have encouraged me to keep going
think if it was just the hv putting me off it wouldnt of been so bad
but when my mum started tell me she wasnt getting enough blah blah
because her poo had a tiny green tinge thats when i started gettting a few doubts
like this crap advice is coming from all angles
to try and get my mum to understand the benifits of bf i showed her the nct breastfeeding for beginers book
where it lists all the health benefits
prob over 20 listed allsorts of benifits as u all know ! and mum just turns round and goes well it all boils down to respiritory?! what the heck
so ive tried to include her and show her why im trying my hardest to do this as she maybe unaware
but i think i just have to accept that we are very different and have different ways of looking at things
she thinks i should be cooking all the meals and doing all the house work
me and dh just want me to concentrate and bf dd and resting and recovering from my op
think she might feel a tad bitter from how things where in her day
she did have to do everything in the house my dad didnt help her
and work fulltime which must of been hard with 3 kids
thy are quite sexist about what a mans role is and what a womans role is i suppose

kittenbaby, you are doing brilliantly in the face of such resistance from your mum, so good your dh is so supportive. My mum wanted me to give up but I think it was because she saw me in so much discomfort and angst, she was really worried about me and didn't see what the big deal was (she didn't bf, they told her she didn't have enough milk and dried up what she had). I also think that my determination to felt a bit like undermining what she did and the choices she made. There may be an element of that for your mum to - often people have their own personal issues when they react so strongly to something.

It sounds like you are doing brilliantly. I wish I had found MN when I had my problems!

Kittenbaby - Your mums sounds a bit like mine.....it's JEALOUSY at you having lovely husband - they had to use twin tubs to wash nappies you know - IGNORE IGNORE and if you can't ignore tell her to be quiet, or say "The consultant said I MUST rest" but don't give her any more information. They don't mean it but they do love to make those comments don't they? We probably will one day too.