"Breast feeding is disgusting"

[TheBookofRuth]

So said my best friend over a group lunch today. I held my tongue - yes, it was an insensitive thing to say in front of me as I'm still bfing my two year old DD and planning on bfing my second DC who's due in July, but it was hardly news to me that she thinks that and we are good enough friends to survive a difference of opinion.

However, when she followed that up with "there's actually no evidence that it's any better for babies than formula", I had to speak up. Eventually someone changed the subject to Palestine on the grounds that it was less controversial.

Haha gamerchic, that's not something I hear often!

*gamerchick, sorry.

radiator

Some women just can't. And it doesn't help when people like you suggest we just need 'properly educated' how fucking dare you.

giving a bottle is the absolutel worst thing you can do? Nice. Really nice.

Radiator

How fucking dare you. I'm already feeling guilty enough for not managing to BF my boys without being told I wasn't 'educated' enough.

My first born ended up in hospital at 4 days old with severe jaundice and an NG tube in because he was STARVING. Because I stubbornly believed I had to BF at all costs.

Sorry for the hijack, but let's not turn this into another 'few women can't BF thread'.

Your friend's attitude to BF is weird & I would be having a quiet word asking her to keep her views to herself in future as you're obviously going to have to agree to disagree.

I not think radiator was trying to be inflammatory, Juno! What she says is true and I know of more than one woman who has given BF despite wanting to, because of that exact issue (and were it not for mumsnet, I'd gave been tags same - not once did anyone warn me about cluster feeding). Do education is really important. If a woman wants to ff then that is absolutely fine, and in the developed world, I firmly believe that ff is a valid choice, but surely it should always be a choice for a woman and not something they feel backed into doing because they feel they have failed or "can't" do something that everyone says they should be able to do?

Surely the best facts are that breast feeding passes on some immunity and that breast milk is sterile? Also free! And suitable for babies with lactose intolerance.

To clarify, education meaning education about the realities of bf, not in a wider sense! Honestly, it makes me that the myth is peddled that bf is easy and wonderful! because the reality for me was (still is) very different. It's shit, and I hate it, and it's inky because I hate the faff and cost of formula that I persist!

She maybe wasn't trying to be, but she was inflammatory. And offensive.

And you've not helped by reiterating that women need educated on breast feeding.

It's ignorant, rude, judgemental and very much holier-than-thou. It smacks of 'look how educated I am - I thought I couldn't breast feed either but I was wrong - so are you!'. It's so offensive it hurts.

When I tell people I wasn't able I expect them to believe me, on face value. Not be secretly thinking 'I bet she could have, she just hasn't been educated properly'.

Ugh.

OP- why are you "best friends" with someone who speaks to you like this?

I do think though that there is a widely spoken of myth that some women simply "can't breastfeed" or don't make enough milk.

Yes it does happen but nothing like the scale that some suggest.
Of the thousand or so women I have seen with breastfeeding problems I have know only two women who "couldn't" breastfeed.

holy shit.

Did you honestly just call being unable to breast feed a myth?

Radiator is right though regardless of how upsetting. Surely it's worse if we pretend and sugar coat the poor lack of provision for supporting bf in this country. With both my dc I was the only parent to successfully bf on my ward each time. This was in spite of the incorrect advice given rather than because of it.

juno- the myth is the scale of the idea that some women can't breastfeed- you misunderstand me.
I have explained that sometimes women can't- I accept that- it just doesn't happen in very large numbers.

I'm not suggesting there are people who aren't supported.

But to say that the 'overwhelming majority' of women who can't BF are simply not educated, isn't correct. And it is very condescending.

I do think though that there is a widely spoken of myth that some women simply "can't breastfeed" or don't make enough milk.

This is your quote. It is NOT a myth.

It is true that a lot of woman give up breastfeeding because they think they can't feed their baby enough. Many many woman expect to feed their baby to drunk full and that'll be it for a few hours. When the reality hits and that's all they are doing, it's a bit of a shock and they blame lack of milk or milk not good enough.

Really when a woman has a baby she should be put in a comfortable spot. Fed, watered and given entertainment. All she has to do then is feed her baby until breastfeeding is established because that's what she'll be doing the most for the foreseeable.

Apologies for my wording.

I was trying to explain that being unable to breastfeed is quite rare.

And actually, it does happen in large numbers.

I assume you are referring to the 3-5% of women who physically cannot make breastmilk.

There are many other reasons why women can't breastfeed, and it's nothing to do with being uneducated.

It's no that rare.

In fact I would go so far as to suggest that people who think it is so rare, are uneducated on the subject.

I didn't suggest that women are uneducated- don't put words in my mouth.

Where did you pluck this 3-5% number from?

It may be inflammatory but it is fact that very very few women do not produce enough milk. I know far more ffs than bfs and statistics suggest that this high number of women 'can't' bf. With my first I had no idea that the constant feeding in the first few days was to establish feeding. I thought I didn't have enough milk, I didn't understand that it took a few days to come in, so lack of education in the details of bf. I got frustrated, gave a dummy and dd1 lost some weight but I did persist and by 4 wks we had nailed it. With dd2 I understood more so she sucked almost constantly for two days until my milk came in. No weight loss and an excellent feeder.

No one ever tells you how hard it is. My dsis tried for only two days before going on to formula. She said she couldn't feed but reality is she didn't want to, which is fine but to say she physically couldn't is inaccurate.

I was referring to radiator's comment about women being uneducated. Wasn't intending to put words in your mouth, apologies.

I didn't 'pluck' it from anywhere. It's fairly widely accepted that between 3-5% of women simply don't make milk.

Not producing milk is not the only reason women can't breastfeed.

To belittle the plethora of other reasons is so bloody patronising.

Even if 3-5% of women have primary lactation failure that's quite a low number.

Your "widely accepted" stats are not actually backed up with scientific evidence however, and in my experience numbers are lower than that.

Okay, but there is scientific evidence. And in my experience the numbers are higher than that. So anecdotally we cancel each other out. Great.

There are, as I keep saying, many reasons why a woman cannot breastfeed, not just sheer inability.

It's patronising and belittling to say it's lack of education. This is the case for some people, of course, but to suggest it's the majority is just plain ignorant.

atthestrokeoftwelve

I understand what you mean and agree with you. From my experience of ante/post natal groups I am often one of the few who breastfeed longer than a few weeks.
often parents/friends/ randoms in the street say its so hard and not everyone can do it and actually if there were more support to make sure latch is right and to realise that it is all you do at the start then more people would persevere. Don't even get me started on feeding in public