Breastfeeding - a contentious rant!

[jenbird]

I may get flamed for this post but here goes:

I am very pro choice when it comes to breastfeeding. I have breastfed all 3 of my babies and I plan on doing the same with this one. However I would never say just because that is my choice it is right for everyone. I understand that different people have different needs and that actually although nutritionally BF may be best if it is making the mother incredibly anxious or miserable then I believe it is not necessarily the best thing for that mother or baby.
What I do hate though is people who say "I just didn't have enough milk" when actually what they mean is "I tried breastfeeding for 2 days, I didn't like it, it didn't work for me and I have decided to bottle feed".
This has happened very recently in my life. A very good friend said she couldn't feed her baby as she didn't have any milk. The reality was that the baby was unsettled a lot and she wasn't sure what to do. Her mother said she "needed" a bottle so she went with that. Her baby is sleeping pretty well at night now and all is fine.
Breastfeeding your first can be really hard work. It hurts, it comes with a huge uncertainty and you seem to spend an inordinate amount of your time feeding but it does have it's rewards too and once you get going it is far easier.
I just hate those flippant comments about not having any milk when actually it is just about choice. Don't devalue the effort I put in just because you didn't want to go down that path.

I obviously can't say this to my friend in RL so I bite my tongue.

Rant over. Hope I don't offend anyone. If I do blame it on crazy lady hormones!

You're being very harsh to judge these women. When people say they didn't have enough milk, the vast majority ime mean that they were given shit advice. encouraged to give formula early as a panacea for all problems and then quickly started to lose supply as a result.

My heart always sinks a bit when I hear about someone trying to bf but 'topping up' with formula on the advice of family/hv - I know there are situations where it is necessary, but it's used far too much and makes it so much harder for the mother to build up supply.

Ff women really can't win can they? If they say it just isn't for them they get the bf evangelists berating them for not trying, if they give a reason like 'not enough milk' they are devaluing your efforts.

I'm amazed that people are so judgemental of other peoples choices. Being a new mum is hard enough without this constant need to compare and judge the choices we make.

Even though dd was mainly ffed, and next dc will be (medical reasons) I totally agree that bfing is in the vast vast majority is best. I just wish it wasn't made so taboo to not bf if you have issues. And worst of all I wish bf councillors, especially at things like NCT classes, would stop saying how easy and natural it is. It makes people feel like failures. If there was some honesty at the start then people may not so readily give it up.

I also agree with pp in that you're not prochoice, it's clear you think that breastfeeding took a lot more effort and in fact that part of your post was very smug. Maybe your friend senses how smug you are and decided she didn't want to feel worse about it than she did. I actually found bottle feeding to be harder, all that sterilising, making up feeds, panicking if I'd forgotten a bottle when out, heating bottles at 4am. I much preferred whipping out a boob and bringing DD into bed at 4am when she was squealing to be fed than wasting time trying to sort a bottle out.

Maybe you should start trying to value the effort other mums put in too.

I wish for three things:

1. better antenatal education on breastfeeding, which goes beyond "oh you must do it because it's really good" - honest information on potential problems and where to get help, maybe people's real life experiences (they do this in my classes for labour, but not for breastfeeding it seems), better education about the mechanics of breastfeeding.

I too get frustrated at the number of women who say in the first 5 days "I didn't have enough milk". But at the same time, it is tough, especially if there are issues like tongue tie, thrush, etc., and not everyone is going to have the strength to battle on against those.

2. close contact HCPs after birth immediately pushing formula when there is the faintest whiff of difficulty with bf, without giving information about how to safeguard supply if the mum wants to continue to bf. Good advice can be found from breastfeeding cafes, lactation consultants and LLL and the like, but if you have postnatal midwives and HVs in front of you giving you bad information, is it any wonder things might start to derail?

3. the prevalent attitude that formula is bad. This actually annoys me more than anything else. Why on earth is there all this guilt about it?

Rationally I know formula is perfectly fine (I was ff from about 6 weeks - my mum really didn't have enough milk, as I think I was an inefficient feeder, but she struggled on as long as she could).
However, when DS had some formula in SCBU while I was trying to establish my supply enough for him to have exclusive BM, the nurse made some throwaway comment about it not agreeing with his tummy, which now makes me feel like I couldn't ever give him formula (especially seeing how sick he is with just BM!). Now I know why she said it, but that little comment niggles away in my head, and I'm sure it must be similar for other people - you hear enough people bad mouthing formula, of course you are going to feel uncomfortable about it.

I really wish those who turn to formula, for whatever reason - and not being happy BFing is a perfectly valid reason! - would not feel guilty.

DS and I have got on well with breastfeeding - we were lucky to escape any major problems, and the only difficulty was my mental struggle to continue when I wasn't enjoying it, but that passed eventually. But when I see my peers with ff babies sleeping between 5 - 10 hours a night, and I am lucky if DS will sleep for 3 hours, there's a bit of me that thinks "I wish I were you" (and yes I KNOW that ff doesn't equal better sleeping!)

So OP, I do sympathise - when you feel like you've struggled / worked very hard to continue, there is a sort of jealousy of those who didn't have to go through that. But remember that they have their own reasons for their decisions - if it's poor education, that's not their fault; if it is finding it a struggle, whether because they just didn't like it or because there were a lot of problems, then you should be sympathetic to the fact that they found it hard. I'm afraid you don't win prizes for continuing to bf in the face of adversity.

Urgh, essay, sorry ...

And everyone above me said it all much more concisely

What fff says, I think the pro-bf camp's denial of how difficult it can be in the early days is as unhelpful as the advice of the 'top-uppers', particularly the line that if it hurts, you are doing it wrong. Sometimes it is just really, really sore. Sometimes if you are engorged it is really, really hard to get the baby on, and with the best advice in the world about position and latch you may end up with blocked ducts, cracked nipples etc. New baby and I are currently battling (reasonably successfully) with the inflatable comedy breasts following milk coming in and I was just thinking last night about all the stuff I tried with my firsttop-ups, pumps, nipple shields, shells, you name itcompared to now (I do have one thing, a lansinoh latch assist). I wish I could go back and tell myself, "just feed her, keep feeding her, grit your teeth if you have to, it will get better."

I have to confess, in my limited experience of FF DC1 and BF DC2 & DC3, FF most defintely DOES equal better sleeping in my house!! My 2 BF babies are/ were terrible sleepers!!

Also, DC1 (who was FF) is now a happy 5yr old at school and, in the playground, no-one would ever have any idea how he was fed as a baby. Its really doesnt matter in the grand scheme of things - it just feels like it does at the time, when you have that small pink bundle placed in your arms!

I agree with you re: badmouthing formula, hobnobs; it just seems so pointless when the country is populated with plenty of children and adults who somehow miraculously survived and even thrived despite being raised on it!

I am Sick of the way people behavenaround breast feeding.

The poster on here who said she feels her own mother 'robbed her if a good start' because she didn't her is particularly indicative of this crazy evangelistic approach to bf these days.

My dm didn't breast feed me either. And guess what? I'm mega healthy, very bright, have a good career and have a fantastic bond with my mother. I am incredibly grateful for the things she did of throughout my life, not focused in the fact that 30 years ago she decided bf wasn't for her. The fact you focus on it says more about you than DM in my opinion.

I'm 7 months pregnant at the moment and am feeling huge pressure to bf. If I don't make that choice it is clear others would think me a Badmother. Well I'm glad you are perfect but I'm feeling a little overwhelmed by all the things I have go learn for first baby and the prospect of doing that while working after 18 weeks. I'm thinking of co feeding from birth. God you might as well whip me now, ey....

I take no issue with mums who ff - I think that's missing the point. I have huge issues with formula companies and shit HCPs.
I also think its a shame that donor milk isn't promoted as an option during early days feeding problems. Last time around I would have got over it if dd1 had any top up bottles when she was born. This time around its in my birth plan that dd2 is not to be given formula under any circs because I have 2 milk donors (within 2 miles of the hospital) who would come charging in to donate bm at the drop of a hat. I am expecting some resistance in the hospital though and I'm ready!

Women should always have a choice and not be judged for bf/ff. but it must be INFORMED choice. And correct information at that. I was amazed at the number of women I spoke to who said they were told by hcp/just assumed that they didn't produce enough milk to feed DC, when I was aware that's only the case for 1% of women.

I had issues with certain people telling me (every 5mins it seemed) whenever I had a bf issue "oh he needs a bottle". Being stubborn as I am I insisted that a bf problem has a bf solution, and I spoke to lactation counsellors, and figured out the solution. Even now I'm getting it in the neck about giving 10mo DS formula simply because he has teeth! Not an issue for me, so why is it a problem for everyone else?

It was difficult establishing bf as I had cs and DS wax in Scbu for 3 weeks, but I got excellent advice, expressed for his tube feeds and bf was built up gradually til he was strong enough to exclusively bf and he's never needed formula. I was lucky to have supportive MW and bf consultants in hospital, and sadly aware this is not the case for everyone. But it should be

What a horrible post.

I genuinely did not have any milk (or colostrum) and had to FF. I managed to stop feeling guilty about it, only to come on MN and find out people actually would think I'm lying about it. Or be all condescending with their 'oh you didn't have enough support' thinking. No, my body just did not work properly!

So please, stop thinking of yourself as extremely pro-choice. No one who is really that tolerant would ever write what you have written here. I personally can't understand the self-absorption that leads women to think other people's feeding choices somehow devalue what they do. It has nothing to do with you. If you can get your head around that, poof, guess what, these things won't irritate you anymore. Problem solved.

Why do people feel 'ashamed' and 'guilty' for giving formula. Unless its laced with arsenic or vodka, I really do not see why it is something to feel ashamed about.

My (excellent) midwife said to me 'both roads lead to Rome' with regards to how to feeding when I was pregnant as I was trying to justify why I didn't want to breast feed. So long as you are feeding the baby I think it's each to their own.

I CHOSE to formula feed, my friend whose dd was born two weeks earlier than my dS CHOSE to breast feed.

And guess what, both babies are perfectly healthy. We didn't get all judgypants with each other about who was working harder or doing best for baby and all that rubbish, instead we spoke and supported each other through hard times both of us had, and enjoyed the good times

And- before anyone tells me the midwife didn't give me the right info regarding breast feeding- she most certainly did. She was very pro breast feeding but did not believe in bullying someone into doing what they didn't want to do

I agree about donor milk crack.

Oh dear OP, why do you feel the need to wade in? So she stopped, let her be.

I am not surprised she told you she didn't have enough milk. I think she will have guessed that you don't believe her and think she is wrong but thankfully politeness dictates you nod to her face and then flame her on here.

I BF my son for 6 weeks......wasn't painful, was knackering but easier than messing with bottles, but the kid was 'starving'. It is all well and good saying 'wait for your milk supply to kick in' but how long do you wait when you are a nervous first time parent? When you pump off 5oz but realise your 6 week old downs 8oz every few hours how do you know that much milk is coming in? How long do you wait whilst he loses weight? For how long would you go against advice from MW+HV?

Like every birth every kid is different and there is no textbook. It is too simplistic to say everyone can. And also just because everyone can doesn't mean everyone should. There are lots of benefits of BF but what if the cost is a deeply unhappy mum with a fraught relationship with their child.

I think it is great if people can BF but I do much prefer those who do it without smugness.

Seeing the word 'failure' used here is bloody upsetting. I do feel like a failure for not breastfeeding my daughter. I tried for ten days and she never latched on. My milk came in but she just screamed every time she was anywhere near my breast. Midwives couldn't get her to latch, HVs couldn't, breastfeeding counsellors couldn't.

So it's not always a fucking choice.

I agree with BlingLoving - I too didn't have enough milk - this was after a traumatic EMCS. My milk never 'came in' yet with support from breast feeding counsellor I did what I could for 2 months sitting on a breast pump 8 times a day (including 2 times in the night when DD was sometimes only up once!) and still my supply never became established.

I am glad you could breastfeed successfully but I think it is really unfair to dismiss the efforts of people who did not succeed.

And I wish people would stop referring to the 1% figure as absolute fact, it just promotes the idea that it's such a teeny tiny percentage of women who could possibly really be telling the truth. There is no way there is enough accurate data out there to say what the true percentage is, for a solid fact. I know for myself, I was recorded as FF by choice even though it obviously wasn't a choice! It would also be surprising if it's 1% for every single female population, regardless of age or other circumstances.

Oh FFS. Her feelings/ experience have NOTHING to do with you.

And I should add, she's fine. Most of the time I don't think about it anymore because formula turned out to be just fine and she was perfectly happy to take a bottle. But then I read judgy, nasty comments from women about other women whose shoes they haven't been in and it makes me feel like shit.

I'm going to hide this topic now, it's too upsetting.

I should say that I knew/know that it was irrational to feel either guilty or ashamed about formula feeding. Partly it was because I had wanted to breastfeed SO MUCH and partly because I had absorbed the rhetoric that every woman can breastfeed if she has the right support that I felt I must be not a proper woman. I don't project my feelings on to FF women, I really hope. I know lots of healthy happy formula fed babies and adults.

If I came across as judgmental and smug it was certainly not my intention. I made my post succinct to make it easier to read. I gave the information I deemed to be most relevant at the time.

I am not smug in anyway about the fact that I breastfed. I do not believe it makes me a better parent. I chose to breastfeed. I received no advice or support in order to help me BF. I am not a BF activist in any way, shape or form and find it judgmental that I am given this label. I can't stand the staunch BF mafia as I don't think it helps promote a healthy view towards BF but alienates those who have made a choice not to. I also hate however the lack of truthful information out there which is ultimately what prevents women making an informed decision for whatever reason.

As someone said the very fact that I am not able to say to my friend "actually you probably would have had enough milk" means that the "no milk" story is perpetuated and this makes it harder for women to make a valid choice.

In the case of my friend I genuinely believe that she is one of the people who actually never wanted to breastfeed. This shouldn't be a problem but like someone else said it is not accepted just to say "I didn't want to". I can understand why this is but it doesn't make it right. If everyone were able to be honest then breastfeeding wouldn't have such a stigma attached to it. It seems to be a bit like marmite, "you either love it or hate it", with no healthy middle ground.

The reason I feel devalued by my friend's comments is that in this instance there was definitely a level of assumption that BF should be easy (I am not commenting on where this assumption came from or whether it is right or wrong). It wasn't for me, I struggled and the effort I put is not recognised and yet I am not really allowed to say anything as to this effect as I may make others feel guilty for not doing it. I am not trying to place guilt on others it would just be nice to get some recognition that it is a hard choice too from those who "couldn't/wouldn't/don't want to".

So there you have it!

Also perhaps this thread should have been posted elsewhere so that first time mums don't read this and feel shit in advance in case BF does not go well, or for whatever reason they do not want to do it .