Never thought BF counld be so hard

[Gina1981]

DD is over 8 weeks now and EBF, but I never thought it was going to be this hard!

Ive been to bf clinic twice this week as I've been so close to giving up! I've started many threads on here re feeding as its been so difficult!

After 8 weeks of question re poo colour, being unsettled bla bla I've now come to the conclusion that she isn't getting a full feed and snacking instead! Sol I'm now on a journey to resolve this! If I'm being honest in so tired and fed up I'm now thinking is any of this worth it!

I don't know how long to keep going until I lose my mind! I have 2 other DC and I hardly have any time for them!

Advice please xxx

I meant the c

Oops pressed post too soon ... Stupid phone!!

I meant that the cold didint last too long with bf babies??

Don't think there is any research showing colds last a longer time if baby not bf, sorry!

The research shows (in UK) more incidences of gastro infections, chest infections and ear infections with ff, and more risk of hospitalisation with gastro and chest infections.

Colds are usually mild, viral and self-limiting - no real reason for any research to be done, really.

I'd be surprised if there was any difference between bf and ff, to be honest - it's normal and healthy that babies get the occasional mild cold, as it's part of the way they build up immunity.

I'm so desperate right now I'm crying! I just don't know how long I can take this! I'm so tired and an never getting anything done! DD is so difficult all the time! I never know what she wants! She never sleeps long enough and I'm guessing that's because she's not feeding properly! I really am at my wits end! I don't know whether I'm worrying about something or it's nothing! My other dc are really suffering as I never have time for either or them and family life is awful! All the problems I've had to deal with and i still feel nothing is any better!

I hope I'm not speaking out of turn here Gina but it sounds like you need some RL help with bfing. No-one on here can see how your baby is feeding or how it's effecting you - could you get a BFC to do a home visit or your HV to come over for a chat?

It sounds like you are feeling really desperate and need someone who is there with you to help you sort out what is going on with baby and you.

Is your Mother able to take baby out for a short walk to just give you a bit of head space? I'm assuming your older ones are at school/nursery at the moment.

If you feel comfortable posting your area I could find a local BFC/bfing group that might be able to visit/you visit.

If it's any help reading the thread back it sounds like things have got better though perhaps not the massive change in your DD's behaviour that would make life easier.

I've been many times! Advice that I get is to space out the feeds! Thing is I give in as I'm convinced with the length of feedin she wouldn't have had enough therefor she is hungry again!!

Then I get conflicting advice and told to fee on demand! I can't win! What do I do!!!!????

Who tells you to space out her feeds? The BFC or the HV (or both)? Have they given a reason for why you 'have' to space the feeds out?

When you feed 'on demand' what triggers you to offer a feed? E.g. Her crying, wriggling, making a 'milky noise', sucking on hand, rooting?

What is her behaviour like in between feeds? Will she sleep, lie down on her play mat happily or does she grizzle/fuss lying down, does she prefer being in a sling next to you, etc?

Aw, Gina - things were going better but they are not yet perfect, for sure...but this is beyond a feeding issue, I think. You have resolved the bf issue - your baby feeds frequently and is thriving and you are less bothered by over-supply and none of that indicates a feeding issue.

I don't think you need to change anything you are doing, with regard to feeding.

But other aspects of your life you need support and help with....you can confidently ignore anyone who tells you to space the feeds out, as this is very rarely any help at all with bf, and can often make bf, and life in general, harder.

I'm even more confused now! I rang the HV helpline last week and admit I broke down, who then contacted my GP who wanted to see me! I went this morning and was told to give up bf and to ff!! I refused so once again was advised to let DD cry and space out the feeds!! I don't feel like any of them are actually listening to me! Hv and bf councellor advise the same!! Who do I listen to?

Tiktok I don't think my oversupply has been resolved! My let down is still very fast!! And to top it all off DD is still not latching on properly! No matter how hard I try to latch her on there is still alot of clicking and sometimes pain! One minute I think it's all going fine then I hit a Brick wall again!!

Gina, if you don't want to stop breastfeeding, then of course you don't need to..whatever your GP says. Why did the GP advise this?

Leaving a baby to cry and spacing out feeds are never any help at all with bf - I am not sure what sort of breastfeeding counsellor advised this but not one trained in the usual way, put it like that.

A fast let down may persist for a while - some people have this for some time. Not sure what you mean by trying hard to latch her on. What happens if she self-attaches? Can you return to the TT clinic and ask them what they think is going on?

I didn't visit a TT clinic, I went privately and she came to my home!

The GP advised to stop as Its draining me and I'm completely exhausted by it all and she is worried about my mental health! I am a little obsess by it all and so desperate for it to work!

When I say that I try to latch DD on properly I go back to the beginning with nose to nipple etc! But DD doesn't open her mouth
wide enough and I struggle to get the breast tissue in her mouth! She
just tends to feed just around the nipple! I'm sure this is why she
doesn't feed for long enough! Tbh when DD cries I don't know what she wants! I can't recognise her cries to identify what's wrong!! I have a feeling that DD may either be losing weight or hasn't put any on! There aren't very many wet nappies and if they are wet it's not much!

I am not sure why you say she doesn't feed 'for long enough' - she is gaining weight, isn't she, and thriving and deciding for herself when to come off?

Your GP may well have concerns about your MH, but the risk with stopping bf is that the obsessive desperation simply transfers to bottle feeding - the mum worries about cleanliness, whether the formula is suiting the baby, whether the formula is being drunk too slow/too fast and so on....there is just as much to obsess about! Only you can decide what the effect would be on you, and whether you want to continue with bf or not.

Not many mothers can decide accurately what their baby's cries actually mean - maybe your expectations are unrealistically high?

Can you speak to your doc about getting help with your mental and emotional health? Or your HV?

I haven't had DD weighed for a while now!! Getting her weighed next week!!

I really don't want to give up as this is my last chance at it!! When I have a gut feeling of something I tend to be right! I guess I'll have to wait till next week!

In addition to what TikTok says....

I had a very hard time working out what DD2's cries meant (with DD1 every cry seemed to be a pain cry as she had reflux) so I tried the 'boob will fix it' method with DD2 & then with DD3.

Every time baby cries or seems upset, start nursing, they stop crying (yay!) and while they aren't crying because they are nursing you can check their nappy, see if they are hot/cold, have a label sticking in them, etc, etc. If I couldn't work out what caused the crying, well it didn't matter because they had stopped crying.

It didn't work 100% of the time (as occasionally they would refuse to nurse) but it did give me a chance to calm down and think rather than get panicky and frantic (I had PND-OCD so massive obsessions with baby) like I did when they cried.

Would that be an option for you to try? You don't have to do it every time they cry, just if you don't know what's wrong (I did used to nurse while getting them to the change mat when they were tiny if they were getting worked up though!).

Truthsweet Its been suggested that I have PND but I don't particularly feel depressed! I just want DD to feed and be content!! Everyone I know have never come across any of the problems I've had to overcome or deal with! They make me feel like it was lovely and easy for them and for me it's been one problem after another one!

Ok tell me.... Should I be worried about DD with this feeding pattern today..... 3.10am - 13 mins 7.45am - 10 mins 8am - 7 mins ( didn't feed consistently ) , 9.15am - 7 mins ( once again not a consistent feed ) , 11.15am - 11 mins , 2.30pm - 10 mins ????? I tried to feed her at 4pm as she was crying but didn't feed long and feel asleep and is still feeding!!

Gina, I've been following your threads and I think you are being far too hard on yourself. Give yourself a break.

My DD is 10 weeks old and no way have we got everything sussed yet eg routines, sleeping through, and I don't expect to for quite a while yet. I think if you stop expecting perfection, you'll start to feel better.

As for the wide open gape, my DD doesn't seem to do that. She kind of laps and then "hoovers" my nipple into the right depth. It's not textbook but it's what works for us!

I meant to type that she is still sleeping not feeding!

Actually doesn't sound worrying to me if it's just from the timing. My DD hasn't got any TT, or any feeding problem. And she was still feeding like this until I went back to work at 7mo. (Unless we are out doing something and she's distracted). Sometimes she can whinge every hour and I just put her to the boob whenever she whinged. (It's the fastest way to make her happy ). I see some very nice gap in there, from 3.10am to 7.45am. and also 11.15 to 2.30. BTW, I unlatch DD if she's fallen asleep and she's fed for 10min. But she's a very fast feeder since birth (10min as newborn), and she's never have a problem with weight gain. That's obviously if I haven't fallen asleep myself. I've sometimes woke up after 20min and she's still sucking in her sleep .

And regarding the feed times, some of my DD's times are similar. I thought that time length didn't have much bearing if wet / dirty nappies and weight gain is consistent? Some babies are just fast feeders!

And PND doesn't necessarily have to manifest as depression and can come out as obsession / preocupation with the baby which is what your GP is probably going on.

Gina, you ask about your feeding experience today.

There is nothing wrong with it.

Timing your baby at the breast tells you nothing, zero, nada. Your baby's length of time sounds well within normal - neither unusually long or unusually short, neither unusually infrequent nor unusually frequent for a baby of your baby's age.

Timing your baby on the breast in this way is simply something most women don't feel the need to do, you can't get it accurate and it doesn't tell you anything!

Would it help you just to stop doing it?

Showtunesgirl is right - PND is only one form of postnatal emotional and mental illness. Anxiety, PTSD, obsession, OCD, and all the rest of the merry gang can happen...alongside depression, or as 'stand alones'.

Post-natal MH issues don't just have to be depression there is Post-Natal Obsessive Compulsive Disorder, Post-Natal Anxiety, Post-Natal Psychosis too. Not that I am suggesting you have ANYTHING wrong with you, just letting you know that it's not just depression that can strike post-birth.

Interestingly, in societies where babies have free access to bf, they have been clocked at 4 feeds an hour. In the West, we think of bfing as separate, distinct feeds, rather than a near continuous drip feeding. There is a quote that I am going to paraphrase wildly - Asking one of the XX tribe mothers how many times a day they bf is a bit like asking you or I how often we have scratched our nose a day.

I do understand that PND presents itself in other ways and admit I have alot anxiety when it comes to feeding!!

I'll try not fixate on timing DD feeding! I think I've had the feeding pattern shoved in my face so many times and DD just doesn't do that! Also the way it "should" feel etc!!!

What should I rely on that DD is getting enough?

My dm keeps telling me in her days there wasn't the Internet and they just bf without timings etc! I've been given so much information that I don't know what to think anymore, that's why I keep saying I'm always so confused!! Part of me wants to go back to the beginning and start all over again!