Never thought BF counld be so hard

[Gina1981]

DD is over 8 weeks now and EBF, but I never thought it was going to be this hard!

Ive been to bf clinic twice this week as I've been so close to giving up! I've started many threads on here re feeding as its been so difficult!

After 8 weeks of question re poo colour, being unsettled bla bla I've now come to the conclusion that she isn't getting a full feed and snacking instead! Sol I'm now on a journey to resolve this! If I'm being honest in so tired and fed up I'm now thinking is any of this worth it!

I don't know how long to keep going until I lose my mind! I have 2 other DC and I hardly have any time for them!

Advice please xxx

Hi Gina,

Breast is best as we all know but mother's sanity and happiness is more important. You've done brilliantly to get this far. If you feel you can persevere it would be good to take Tiktoks advice, however at this stage, I wouldn't hesitate to supplement with formula, it's not as good as breastmilk but it does the job. In other positives you can see how much they drink, you know they're getting a balanced feed - there's no fore/hind milk stress and DP can give it to them freeing you up to sleep / play with the other kids.

You may need to express to keep up supply / relieve pressure and there is a risk of worsening the feeding as baby might prefer the bottles flow, maybe research using a teat that's most like a nipple so baby doesn't get impatient at the breast.

Good luck and well done whatever you decide.

lagrandissima - there's no evidence that removing citrus from a mother's diet would help someone like the OP - not sure what you meant, there :)

smiling - but how will formula help the OP? If she has to express when she gives formula, does that not risk making her life more difficult? Which teats are more like a nipple? Why would formula be more 'balanced' than breastmilk? Why does knowing how much the baby has had at any one feed help? It does not tell you how much the baby needs at any one feed. You want to help and support - and that's great. But that's best done with sound information....

Gina - there is no way on earth you can tell what your milk is like by looking at it and judging it for thinness/thickness. Your milk will be just fine - foremilk/hindmilk is not anything anyone needs to worry about, as you can see if you read the kellymom links.

Thank you to everyone who has posted, I really appreciate it.

Have been block feeding and it seems that DD is too lazy to suck to work for her milk. She gives up after that sudden rush of milk. I have read everything that has been suggested and can only say that DD isn't working hard enough to get a "proper" feed as she isn't on long enough and doesn't follow the pattern of a feed!

Im extremely exhausted and off to bed now, it's been a really long day!

tiktok - I don't profess to be an expert I'm just making a suggestion which may alleviate stress and provide another option. I would definitely suggest the OP research what it would mean to her if she were to introduce formula. There is lots of wonderful advice on how to find solutions to breastfeeding issues on mumsnet which is fantastic. I feel there is less of a balanced view towards some of the benefits of formula. Formula can be a godsend to some breastfeeding mothers and it doesn't have to mean the end of breast feeding. I think the constant bashing of women from the moment they conceive until the time their child is weaned, with breast is best information is overkill that results in women feeling extremely guilty when they consider formula as an option and that absolutely shouldn't be the case.

As we know you are the resident expert and I am only a new mother who has also struggled with breastfeeding however I don't want to leave your questions unanswered:

If she needs to express it would be a job, she may be able to do it at a time that suits her better, an extra pump in the day perhaps, it may be more hassle which is why I've pointed out she may need to do it.

I don't know which teats are more like a nipple, I've heard there are some that reduce nipple confusion, which is why I've suggested she research it.

Formula is balanced in that you don't need to worry about the fore and the hind, too much lactose, not enough fat.

Knowing how much the baby has taken makes the mother feel better, I don't think I'm the only woman who sometimes wished there was a measure on her breast.

Something is going wrong. The green stools ARE NOT normal!

This is a really good visual about foremilk/hindmilk.

This is also a post from the excellent Analytical Armadillo about poo, the causes of it, common misconceptions, things to try, it's a good article.

Oops green poo sorry.

Gina, green poo certainly can be normal. Plenty of healthy babies sometimes poo green, some healthy babies always poo green :) It can be an indication of 'intestinal hurry' - when a baby has a tummy bug or other infection, and their gut works quickly (speed of processing is what makes the poo green - it doesn't sit in the lower gut long enough to turn yellow).

It can also be a clue that the baby's milk has less fat in it, because the baby is getting large volumes of lower fat milk (which are processed more quickly). There is nothing wrong with this at all. The baby may be doing just fine and be perfectly ok, but if the baby is spluttery and unsettled and struggling at the breast and has green poo, we'd look at whether oversupply is the reason for the large volumes of lower fat milk, and the spluttering and struggling.

But if green poo is there with no other problems, no other signs the baby is ill, then nothing needs to be done. In your case, your baby does seem as if there is something of a struggle, so it's worth investigating. As I said, oversupply (in most cases) is dead easy to fix, by block nursing.

smiling, I am worried I have offended you, and you are perfectly right to defend what you said...but it's still not helpful, and you have implied I think/say things that I do not.

You say: "Formula can be a godsend to some breastfeeding mothers and it doesn't have to mean the end of breast feeding." I don't deny it and have not denied it here!

" I think the constant bashing of women from the moment they conceive until the time their child is weaned, with breast is best information is overkill that results in women feeling extremely guilty when they consider formula as an option and that absolutely shouldn't be the case." I am not a part of any bashing and I have written loads here about the pernicious effect of guilt.

Ok, you were more exploratory about expressing and teats - there are no teats which really are like a nipple though, despite what their marketing says :)

"Formula is balanced in that you don't need to worry about the fore and the hind, too much lactose, not enough fat." You don't need to worry about that with breastmilk, either - somehow or other, the research about fat in breastmilk has come to be something women stress about and there is no need for it.

"Knowing how much the baby has taken makes the mother feel better, I don't think I'm the only woman who sometimes wished there was a measure on her breast." I think you are right there - this is something mothers do worry about. But it does not help the situation - knowing how much does not mean the baby has had what he needs - he may need more, or less, at any feed!

I don't want to fall out with you, and I am certain you wanted to help and support. And it's not helping the OP to be discussing what you said, so I will shut up now!

Have been reading the other posts and hoping that the original poster has had a better night. I don't think anyone encouraging her to perservere is 'bashing' those who chose to formula feed, having been there I know how frustrating, stressful and worrying it can be. I went to the health visitor in tears and she said 'well done for getting this far now here is a leaflet on bottle feeding'!!! Possibly the most unhelpful thing anyone could say! If only I had some support of some other breadtfeeding mothers who could tell me that I didn't need to stop and that it would all be ok. I think that's all tiktok is trying to do and I wish I would have had access to someone like this when I was having problems.

Tiktok I've been trying to block feed for weeks but it hasn't seems to work. I must be doing ssomething wrong! DD never seems to be one the breast long enough in each session. I'm so confused!

Have you got a local laleche group or a breastfeeding midwife at your maternity unit? When I was having problems I went to both and they watched me do a feed. I thought I was doing stuff wrong but they reassured me it was ok. They can check the latch and how long she is feeding for if it's still worrying you.. However, it's all very well us telling you that it's ok, I appreciate that we arent the ones feeding your little one., I went to the Drs when I was having problems with my slow letdown and she tried to tell me it was all normal when I knew it wasn't. It seemed like no one was listening and I knew things were not normal despite what anyone said! If you have tried everything that's been suggested then I would go and see a specialist. You know you and your baby better than us..

It doesn't matter if she's not feeding for long at each feed, all block feeding means is to feed as normal but every time she asks to feed, between say 7am and 10am only let her feed from the left side. If she wants to swap, wind her and put her back onto that side, try the football hold if necessary to convince her(!)

Then from 10-1pm feed as normal still but again, only offer the right side. From 1-4pm switch back to the left side, and so on.

Is that not encouraging the supply? Surely she should feed every so often and be done with it. That way she is hungry enough to get the full feed??

But I try to and DD doesn't actually have a feed! Am convinced she uses me as a comforter! Omg this is doing my head in. I really want to get through the weekend as I have a lactating consultant coming to see me on Monday.

No, it doesn't really work like that. It's quite normal for breastfed babies to have a little and often feeding pattern when they are so little, their tummies are really small and only stretch slowly (which is a good thing) because it's impossible to get them to take more than they need/want. Her feeds will probably spread out over the next few weeks/months as she gets more efficient at feeding and your supply settles down.

Did you have a look at the foremilk/hindmilk article I linked? I found it really reassuring. There is one on analytical armadillo which is really good and goes through the feed timing thing as well if you want me to find it?

Block nursing works because in the early days, milk is made pretty much constantly, as well as just when they are feeding and will collect in the milk ducts when they are not feeding. If the baby feeds and removes that milk, it sends a signal to make more, but if the milk is left in the breast (your breast feels "full") that means you've got too much, so it sends a signal to produce less. So instead of the baby taking little feeds off each side and removing the accumulated milk every time, the milk on the non feeding side is being left to collect, and so sends the signal to produce less. This goes into more detail if you are interested.

Sorry xposted

If she is comfort feeding, she is still getting milk. Are you worried that the feeds are so short she is just taking the edge off her hunger each time and so not getting enough?

My biggest concern is that she isn't getting the fattier stuff which is causing her the runny green pop, being windy and being unsettled! Today I have decided to make her go longer inbetweeb feeds so she can have a proper feed! The 2 times I've been to bf clinic this week I've been advise that she needs to stop snacking! Yes I definitely have an oversupply which I can't seem to correct! So far DD has had a feed at 7.50am which lasted approx 10mins from the right breast and 10.30am for approx 15ish mins from the left!! DD had a nap in the morning and is napping now! Which breast do you suggest I feed from next?? May I also say that I had to hand express from both breast before the feeds as they were bursting!!

I would try pumping- bin the Blue ish fore milk and feed her the hind- I would also restrict the time between feeds - I was given this advice on dc5 and it made things much much better ... I empathise hugely especially when its not your first x

I'm sure it's ok if you have nothing else to do all day! I have 2 other DD's to look after too! I was demanding feeding in the early days but 9 weeks on I just can't do it anymore! It's affecting the family as a whole and am so drained that I feel like I'm going insane!

I completely understand the art if block feeding but I need to know how long to feed from one breast? 2 feeds per breast maybe? Then that would be 6 hours between each breast??

They say 2-3 hours to begin with for block feeding. Any feeds within that time on the same breast. I'm afraid I don't know more than that because I'm not an expert, just a peer supporter. Can you speak to anybody today or do you have to wait until Monday?

I agree the foremilk and hindmilk thing is a bit of a red herring - if you see here, it gradually changes over the course of a feed and even the foremilk has fat content in it
thefunnyshapedwoman.blogspot.com/2011/05/foremilk-and-hindmilk-in-quest-of.html

But, it does also sound like you have oversupply.

I'm concerned that the breastfeeding clinic told you to stop her "snacking" because this isn't generally thought to be a problem, it's quite a normal pattern for them. Do you have any help around this weekend? It sounds really draining.