To ask where the self rightoueus bf/ff thread has gone

[pigletmania]

It was here this morning, but not now.

Well said Ben, my thoughts exactly

Dunno why I'm on this thread TBH, it's a good 16+ years since I BF. I just don't like Shiny Evangelicals who are full of polemic rants.

Hiss
There are people who 'can't' breastfeed due to medication, hypoplastic breasts, mastectomy, HIV etc. Who either cannot produce milk or whose milk would be unsafe. Then there are those who can't because it's too painful, or difficult, due to mastitis, abcess, thrush, reynauds, inverted nipples, cracked nipples or the rest. It's just too difficult to continue. There are those who can't because to breastfeed would mean too great a compromise, for example re existing DCs, work commitments, or needing to take medication for mental or physical health that would affect milk. Those categories actually make up a huge number of women. They all have varied and personal reasons why they 'can't' breastfeed. Some are avoidable, some not so, but all are valid.
There are threads on the feeding boards where people explain their choices if you are interested.

I would like to know, no I demand to know, why some women cant get their babies to sleep through the night. My baby slept through from 12 weeks, she also never had colic, doesnt cry often and is a little ray of sunshine pretty much constantly. This is entirely down to how saintly I am and I truly believe that other women just don't try hard enough.

Why is AIBU currently so full of people who apparently want to understand/ can't understand other people's choices?

It inevitably actually means that they want to judge other's choices but don't quite have the nerve to come right out and say so.

Well said YaMaYaMa, my two little angels were the same.
Mystified me when other mothers complained of lack of sleep, but I kept my opinions to myself or I'd have been stomped and shredded.
Mind you, both my babies were pre-internet I think.

Exactly yamayama I totally agree!

Agree kungfu, I think when people say "I can't understand [x]" what they really mean is "I want others to come and agree with me that [x] is wrong". It's judging by stealth.

I agree that it's judging but I dont think it's by stealth

I think maybe some people just need to be congratulated on their mothering skills and I don't know why. Don't we all have things we struggle with as mothers? You may not do now, but you have a whole lifetime of being a mother ahead of you and I'm sure you will struggle with things, be unable to do things, be terrible at things etc.

I think that there are 2 types of women who have this urge to shame other women who use formula.

1 - Found breastfeeding fairly easy from the off, it may even have hurt a bit but was bearable.

OR

2 - Had immense difficulties with breastfeeding but stuck with it with an almost psychotic determination, as the concept of bf was totally and overwhelmingly wrapped up with being a good mother and to fail at it would be catastrophic for how they see themselves.

Ah there was actually a nice feeding thread last week, from someone who was thinking of FF her next baby as she would have a toddler mostly on her own at the same time.

I kept waiting for it to self-destruct but for some strange reason it stayed very helpful and pragmatic and even-keeled. I'd never seen such a thing. It should probably go in classics.

I think the one time I ever got onto a bf/ff thread was when I first came on to MN and I couldn't believe the vitriol between posters. I never said what I chose as my son is 16 now and it was soooo long ago.
There is a bf/ff topic for a reason and as another poster said upthread, just wait till they're older, all these angsty posts will just fade into (embarrassed) memory.

I can barely remember how I fed mine

Why is everyone having a go at Hiss - her post wasn't judgey - she was just saying that she was interested in the particular reasons behind feeding choices.

She's most probably correct in her assumption that all the people who she knows who ff couldn't actually breastfeed, but showing an interest in why they didn't breastfeed does not automatically mean she is judging them for not doing so.

While peoples choices around ff/bf is not a particular interest of mine, there are other areas of life where people make decisions that absolutely fascinate me (such as religion) because I am a nosey cow interested in psychology and the human condition.

couldn't actually not breastfeed (if they had wanted to)

I had that thread open when I went out this morning and when I next restarted the computer, it came back with the best thread deletion message ever:

"This thread has been deleted by MNHQ because, let's face it, it turned into a bit of a bunfight."

hiss I don't want this to kick off but did want to say if your really after an understanding of the problems people face you should visit th bf/ff section it's very enlightening to the problems people have.

Today I have already seen a woman post who has had a 3rd dc having ebf with no probs her other 2 she has ended up back in hospital with a baby who has lost15% of her weight. She has been advised my medics she needs to top up with formula and is very upset. If it was her first baby perhaps she kwouldn't feel so strong.
There are loads of other stories like this. Who are we to judge, require an explanation and how sad people need to give you an excuse as to why they didn't.

lenak I think it's probably because she said that she doubts the reason they have given. If that's what they said then that should be the reason she shoul accept.

lenak I think this is the sentence from Hiss' post that comes off badly:

'There is no way everyone i've come across 'can't' do it! and would like to hear actual reasons why people chose not to.'

Generally, if someone tells you they can't do something, the reasonable reaction is to accept that at face value.

I think it's a bit rude to doubt people and ask for the real reason.

I couldn't BF as my milk never came in. It's not nice to think there are people out there who, unless I give them the dirty details, will just think I must be lying or exaggerating or 'being defensive'.

I did bf mine, HOWEVER they were all premature, so I fed them til the due date them swapped ! One was 8 weeks prem and was in SCBU for 6 weeks, managed about 2 weeks worth of expressing til it dried up...just not the same when the baby isn't with you.
Whatever makes mum and baby happy imo !

what i don't understand is why people care if you bf or ff

No blackout, something I'll never get either and was never an issue for me in RL.
It wasn't until I came onto MN that I realised how huge the issue is.

YaMaYaMa

I am not convinced women who had an easy time breastfeeding are judgmental re ff. I was really lucky dd was easy to feed (as long as I was prepared to feed her every 30 mins in the day- 3 hours at night).
But I was really aware of the problems other mothers had. If I had gone through that I would have hit the bottle straight away.

Generally, if someone tells you they can't do something, the reasonable reaction is to accept that at face value.

I think it's a bit rude to doubt people and ask for the real reason.

Sorry screaming but I disagree.

Hiss is most probably right to doubt that all of the people who say they 'can't' bf, can't do so for genuine physiological reasons (I believe the estimate is around only 5% of women can't physically bf for some reason?).

Finding out the real reason someone claims they can't bf is only a problem if it involves judginess and I really didn't get a sense of judginess from her post. In fact, not accepting things on face value can have positive results.

I, for example, 'couldn't' bf DD1 because after 24 hours my nipples were cracked and bleeding and I was in agony. I know now that it was down to poor latch and lack of support. It is only by exploring the reasons why women like me were unsuccessful in breastfeeding that the severe lack of support has been identified and is now being addressed.

I am (touch wood) now successfully bf'ing dd2, but that is only because of much better support.

Similarly it is important to identify those women, like yourself, that genuinely can't bf for physiological reasons so that research can be done and possible 'cures' found so that all women can have a genuine choice.

It is arguably rude to ask for more details from those who say they just didn't want to breastfeed, but finding out the reasons behind that decision is interesting just in terms of understanding human behaviour and thought processes.

The issue, particularly on MN, is when any one asks why a particular parenting, and in particular feeding, decision has been made, it is automatically assumed you are asking to judge rather than out of genuine interest / curiosity / desire to change things or help and people's automatic response is to get defensive or aggressive.

There are plenty of women that simply prefer to formula feed also.
They shouldn't have to justify themselves, or make excuses.
It's just the way they decided to feed their baby.