Tandem feeding support thread

[EauRouge]

In anticipation of some graduates from the BF and pregnant thread, here's a shiny new thread for tandem feeders to laugh, moan and puzzle over the ins and outs of BF a baby and toddler.

Things are going pretty well for us, we are having a bit of hair-pulling at the moment though. DD2 is 7 mo and loves grabbing hair. DD1 (3 in just over a week!) is not so keen and sometimes wraps her arms around her head.

Another issue is DD1's latch. She's not even close to self-weaning but her latch has been really lazy the last few months. I googled and found this which has been really helpful.

Aside from that, things are brilliant and I'm really glad I'm still BF DD1. It's my one-stop parenting tool for fixing everything

Moon have you tried all the self help measures it is unlikely that it will be infected as yet so you might be able to get away with not needing antibiotics.

thanks mbj (and for your other post which i am yet to read) but my phone can't open the pdf and the home internet is still down after everything was unplugged to make room for the birth pool.

I am drinking lots of water and feeding as much as poss esp from the sore breast.

Essentially feed from the affected breast as much as possible, Try to feed in different positions (preferably with baby/toddler's chin facing the blockage), express gently between feeds, avoid restrictive clothing or bras, warm pads or warm shower, ibuprofen.

You can also use a comb to gently massage down, across the red area, towards the nipple.

Good luck

thanks mbj. Will set dh on making some hot pads now...

Oh I love Hebden Bridge, I always feel right at home!

I hope you're feeling better moon

I have been really engorged on and off since my milk came in. My boobs are huge.

Tonight, DD1 slipped and bumped her chin - refused milk to feel better and then caught her fingers in the cutlery drawer - again refused milk. She came to me crying, showing me her fingers but didn't want milk.

Then at bed time, DH took her to the bathroom to brush her teeth and when brought her back she was asleep!

I don't think she has ever done that. I was amazed.

She has just woken and asked for milk so she's helped me out of that awful engorged feeling for now.

So I have been feeding DD1 fir the last 2 hours and she isn't falling asleep.

I know DD2 is only a week old but DD1s demands for milk have gone crazy. My nipple (she prefers one side) is killing me.

is this normal? Will she get bored soon and go back to having less milk.

Last night was so hard I cried - I expected the baby to be hard but she's really not. DDs behaviour is really challenging.

:( It's really tough isn't it. Dd1 was the same when dd2 arrived. I had to impose some limits to stop me going mad. Would dd1 respond to some kind of time limit on feeding? I tell dd1 she has 2 more minutes then we're going to do something else (offer her choice of 2 things she enjoys). I then give her a 1 minute warning, then count down from 10.

Just do what you need to do to survive in the early days, even if it means bribing her with things you wouldn't usually let her have our do.

Thanks snail I meant to say I started posting that at 6am on my phone but fell asleep and just posted when I got up at 9:30-ish.

2 hours from 4am-6am. We've kept her awake today so hopefully she'll sleep better and not ask for milk as much...

How are you?

I just popped on again to post my mammoth birth story - apologies if you've seen it already....

Ok, finally I'm posting my story!

So you know I'd been losing bits of plug and had a show. DH stayed home from work on the Friday when I had my show just in case. We had a nice day as a family, got some last minute bits and went for lunch.

On Friday evening my brothers came to visit, we all sat around eating pizza and chatting. I had some awful Braxton Hicks which seemed to freak out my poor SIL.

DD and I went to bed really early. I'd been awake since 3am and felt exhausted. DD woke me at 1:30am for milk. She nursed for an hour by which time I was having contractions so I told her I'd have to stop.

She hadn't eaten much the day before so DH took her down for breakfast (at 2:30!) and I dozed between contractions which were roughly every 15 mins. I found them manageable bit I still had to breathe through them more or less from the start.

At 5am I thought I'd check on DH. He looked exhausted but DD was happily playing on the sofa bed. So we swapped, he went to bed and I sat up with DD. She asked to feed at 5:30am so I fed her to sleep, which fortunately was very quick and then dozed next to her on the sofa bed.

I was still having regular contractions but was coping. Eventually I got up and made a cup of tea and emptied the dishwasher.

I think it was about 8am when I decided to just give my MW a headsup and text my stepmum asking if she would watch DD for the day.

I told the MW not to come out yet (she's 40 mins away). We got DD dressed and she, very reluctantly, went to her grans. Actually, she was very upset and I felt terrible about sending her away. I had one more contraction and then it all just stopped. So then guilt set in for sending DD away in tears and changing my step-mums plans and waking my MW.

DH and I decided to walk to the shop, about a mile and a half each way, to see if it started things again. It didn't. We got back at about 9:30am, DH made tea and toast and we cuddled in bed and slept until 11:30am which was actually lovely!

At about half 11 I was woken by quite a strong contraction and jumped out of bed to breath and lean on the wall.

We'd already partially filled the pool and put the cover on. We came downstairs, pottered around, had some lunch. The contractions were still every 15 mins so I just thought it was slow labour/false alarm .

By mid-afternoon I was finding the backpain a bit much so DH suggested a shower. It was brilliant at helping my back pain so I stayed in for ages. I asked him if he'd called the MW and just get her to check the baby's heartbeat and position. I also asked that he call my step-mum and ask for DD to come home.

I got out of the shower and he came in and said MW was on her way and that DD was sleeping but would be home soon. Stepmum mentioned she'd had a fall when climbing to get a balloon and banged her eye on the table.

DD (2.9) arrived home just before the MW got here. Her eye had some blood crusted in the corner, was almost swollen closed and just black. I was so devastated and just sobbed. I'd sent her away thinking I was going to have the baby that day and for nothing. No baby, massive black eye. And you know when you just know it would have been one of those moments when your child just wanted you.

So I was sobbing quite uncontrollably when they MW arrived. She was really calming, hugged me and said "these things happen and she's fine now look". I was glad she was there.

So this was 5pm. She observed a few contractions, felt the baby (still LOT and slightly oblique, not engaged) but HB fine and I was ok (urine, bp etc).

DH made dinner for us all but I skipped it and continued to contract every 15 mins. At about 7.30pm DH took DD for a bath and the MW asked what I wanted her to do - leave me in peace or stay. She said she'd do whatever I wanted.

I really couldn't decide. I knew I wasn't in the zone because I was chatting between contractions and generally doing ok.

She suggested I get in the pool (which was till 40 degrees despite being filled hours before). I said it felt far too early to get in the pool and I was worried it would slow things down. She said if that happened I could just get out.

So I wandered around the house collecting lamps for the kitchen and the MW set up the resus stuff on the dining table.

I wasn't quite sure what to do, do I strip off or get in with a top on... I decided that if she hadnt seen my boobs by now after me breastfeeding my toddler at virtually every visit then it would be a miracle. And anyway, she was going to see it all soon anyway.

So I got in naked. It was 8:30pm. The pool was lovely. I just floated around a bit and my contractions slowed slightly at first but after a short amount of time they picked up again.

I found them much more manageable in the warm water but still felt they weren't getting to be anything like "real labour". At this point the back up MW arrived and I was a bit surprised because I thought I was going to be ages yet.

DD appeared in the kitchen with DH really upset. She wanted to get in the pool. So in she got, she loved it. Bouncing around singing "I'm deep, I'm deep, I'm deep!". But she wanted to bounce on me when I had contractions and it was too hard so I asked DH to take her out.

I laboured a bit longer and she appeared again, really sobbing asking for mummy milk. I was going to say no but I could tell she was tired and thought if I could feed her to sleep I might get some peace.

I got out of the pool and had a contraction. Out of the water was so hard. I fed DD on the sofa and had 3 contractions in fairly quick succession.

I eventually said I couldn't take anymore and she went upstairs with DH. I practically dived back into the pool.

I don't remember much after this. Contractions were still ok, didn't feel closer together but my notes say they were 3 in 10 mins.

I started to shake, my legs were uncontrollable and I remember laughing and telling the MW. Then I felt a bit sick so she passed me a bowl. I wasn't actually sick so I dismissed any hopes of it being transition.

Then suddenly I felt a bit pushy. Only a bit, and mentioned it to the mw. She didn't seem surprised and said to just go with it.

The next thing I felt this massive thing in my birth canal. Wow! I hadnt really thought about what it would feel like to feel the baby move down. Then my body just started pushing. It was such an intense feeling, I was quite surprised and my contractions hadn't got as bad as I anticipated so I had expected to be hours. I hadn't even got to the gas and air!

She seemed to move down fairly quickly and then I felt her crowning. Then she popped back in. The MWs encouraged me to move from all fours to lean back into a squat. She crowned and popped back in again and then with the next contraction her head was out.

The MW asked if I wanted to look down at my baby's head or touch it - something I expected to do - but I was so surprised she was almost here that I couldnt do it.

I noticed that DH and DD were there watching and went back to closing my eyes.

The MWs then encouraged me to stand for the next contraction which pushed her body out and seemed never ending and then out she came!

I vaguely noticed the MW unravelling the cord from her neck and then she told me to lift my leg so she could pass the baby underneath to me.

I sat back in the water and someone suggested I have a look at what I had. I admit, at first glance, I thought she was a boy and was a bit confused when DH said a girl after I said "is it a boy?". The second stage had only been 20 minutes.

I cuddled her in the water and was just a bit stunned. It was 10:55pm.

After 20 mins I wanted to get out. I stood to get out and found my leg muscles so exhausted and cramping I couldn't get out. DD1 was stood waiting for me to get out and said "mummy your vagina's wet". I had to sit back in the water because laughing made my contractions worse.

I stood again, got out and out came the placenta, caught in a potty by a quick-reflexed MW.

I was examined on the sofa: 1 degree tear and a graze. I opted not to have them stitched.

DD1 asked for milk and to go to bed. So on went the paper knickers and I walked DD1 upstairs to bed while DH carried DD2.

It was midnight now so DD1 fed to sleep in seconds and I got into bed with DH and DD2 while the mw made tea and toast and tidied up. It was just lovely. DD2 latched on really easily which was something I'd worried about.

DH & I couldn't stop talking about it all and we eventually went to bed at 2:30am. He went and slept on the sofa bed and I had the kingsize bed with the DDs.

I think I am still on a bit of a high from it all. I keep crying at the thought of not seeing my mw again. She's visited quite a few times and is coming again tomorrow.

So that's it, sorry for the delay! It just took so long go write because I'm not particularly concise!

Wow Kelly that's beautiful.

kelly it's so lovely to read your story! I must write mine...so much of yours reminded me of our experience, amazing relief from the water, time between ctx, the entire 2nd stage (though i also had a hillarious bulging water bag like a was birthing a balloon . Don't suppose you did hypnotherapy? I did and put a lot of my experience down to it.

I also cried, neigh, had a minor break down last night. I just couldn't seem to settle either dc, never mind both at the same time. We had a very late tearfulk night in the end. I said some cross words to poor ds and broke down sobbing. He sweetly kissed me and stroked my arm so then i felt even worse at my short temperedness.

Tonight couldn't be more different. Both are asleep now...but the day's preceding each evening were vastly different too.

Ds is barely eating solids so nursing lots. I don't mind most of the time and being 20m he's too young for greensnail's clever tacticts, damn it!

I think hebden bridge is my spiritual home...and i shed a tear t'other day when i was signed of from (quite probably) my last ever mw appointment...so all in all i could have written your posts kelly!

All the drinking water and feeding paid off cause my self diagnosed "mastitus" came to naught...phew. So i had a lovely birthday instead.

Kellykettle, wow what a fabulous story!

Sorry to hear that you are finding dd1 challenging. I remember it well with ds1 when ds2 was a baby. I think I decided to let him have 2 or 3 weeks (I don't remember exactly) of unlimited nursing, and he wanted to nurse more than newborn ds2. It was really irritating. Sometimes I wanted to throw them both off and run away.

After this time of unlimited nursing, if I said no to ds1, he went into a rage, pulling ds2 off my boob, hitting him, tantrumming on the floor (this was the boy who had been nothing but mild mannered up til this point). I remember having to lock myself and ds2 in the bathroom just so I could feed him at one point and ds1 going crazy in the hallway outside banging on the door and screaming. It didn't help that dh wasn't terribly supportive. It was a bloody difficult time. Nothing like the image I had created in my head of beautiful times all snuggled together feeding and the two DSs gazing into each others eyes.

Looking back though, ds1 was ill at the time. He is quite ill just now and it seems that he's been unwell for a long time, so that would not have helped matters I think.

This too shall pass!

Glad you managed to nip the mastitis in the bud Moonface. I had a similar experience and managed to shift it before it got infected. Ds1 loved being able to help by getting extra milk! I was so engorged, that ds2 was stuffed and couldn't take any more and he had hardly taken the pressure off! I was very glad that ds1 could help!!

Oh Moon I could have written your post too. I always say to DH that Hebden Bridge is my spiritual home! Haha!

Oh yes, cross words, crying and cuddles from the little one - check.
Guilt -check

Oh yes, write it down. You'll forget it so quickly!

I used natal Hypnotherapy and I did listen to it when contractions first started to help me relax and sleep. I had to turn it off because it was too distracting in the end.

I did do other classes in pregnancy though which covered affirmations, relaxation and breathing and I think it all went in. I had affirmations going through my head in early labour but I didn't intend to.

I couldn't have stayed so relaxed without the pool an breathing exercises though.

Do you think you'll have any more DC?

Dd1 was only 17 months when dd2 was born and she got it moonface so might be worth a try if you want to.

Beautiful birth story Kelly. I would have loved a home water birth but that was never going to be an option for me so am very envious of that.

I'm really good thanks for asking. An in slight disbelief that dd2 is the same age today as dd1 was when dd2 was born. Doesn't seem real as iv remember dd1 seeming so grown up but dd2 is still very much the baby. Don't know where all that time has gone to.

Right, I am really fed up 40+4 today.

Did any of you know you were going to go into labour that day? Or (please god) did it just happen out of the blue, so to speak?

I am having a lot of signs that things are moving in the right direction but nothing seems to be happening and the BHs which a week ago seemed really strong, are now still there but I barely notice them

DS is not really feeding either. I mean, he comes over for many, many short suckles during the day, sometimes driving me nuts but he never really stays latched on for long enough to elicit a BH.

Aaarrrgghhh!

I have tried everything too. Everything except castor oil.

Step away from the castor oil!

I didn't know I was going into labour on the day I did. It was sod's law though, it happened on my mum's birthday so I ruined her romantic evening in with my step-dad by packing DD1 off to stay with them for the night

Once DD2 was born, I realised I had gone over 11 days both times.

Good luck, you could always try that aubergine recipe. It doesn't work but it's tasty and it'll give you some energy

greensnail i'm very impressed at your dd1...there is no way ds would undertand two more minutes atm. Maybe we could work on it but tbh the only time we have issues are when both dc's want feeding to sleep and so he wouldn't be easy to bargain with then. Generally i'm fine feeding him as much as he wants anyway. We've just had the odd clash between his needs and dd's.

Kelly i doubt we.ll have any more. It would mean moving house and therefore working more etc. We want to home ed so i want to work as little as possible. Will you have more?
It was natal hypnotherapy i used too and i really rate it i have to say.

Mawbroon ds was more than happy to help!

Atm he loves saying "shhh! Shhh!" grabbing at my unsuspecting boob and squeezing it in the hope that milk will squirt out (which it does and then he squeals with delight)...as a hand expression technique it leaves a lot to be desired.

Hi ladies finally gotton chance to to update:

Jessica Emily Humphreys was born at 11.12pm on 22nd October 2011 a healthy 9lb3oz. She's beautiful :)

I woke around 2am on 22nd with strong ctx and they kept going every 5 - 10 min. They came closer together till they were 3-5. Went in hospital and was disappointed at only 2cm dilated posterior cervix with length. Returned home at 11.30am. Pains came all day and increased intensity and frequency. Managed to help get my ds2 to bed and sister and bil arrived. Back in hosp around 8. In lots of pain and needing g&a. Checked and still same cervix. In tears as pain so intense. Told couldn't have g&a till in labour and I wasn't. Told could have temazepan or pethidine. I didn't want either as stay in system. Had to go to another ward. This was all around 8.30. In huge pain and accepted pethidine at 9ish. Did nothing except make me feel sick. Had no idea how I could carry on and was very scared. We were left on our own. Midwife checked me at 10.45 as I was quite loud. I was already 9cm and on all fours on bed. Wheeled round to delivery still no pain relief and they couldn't work g&a. I was begging for epidural! No time obviously. Finally got g&a at 11.03, at same time I was fully dilated and urge to bear down (so primal and powerful) and it eased pain to do so. Waters went on first push and I thought that was it! Lol but needed to deliver baby. Within 9 minutes Jessica delivered and then placenta 5 min later. I was kneeling/all fours for whole lot. All on a little g&a for pushing. Had small 2nd degree tear no stitches. Left hospital within 2 hours of delivery. Jessica already pro at bfing and is amazing :) I'm sore, after pains strong and lost large clot. Hoping all ok down there but to be reviewed Tuesday or sooner if I pass more. Never had injection to deliver placenta either. All very very quick and intense. Can't believe I went from 2cm posterior with length to 9 cm in 2 hours 15 min and to have baby in total of 2 1/2 hours! :D she had cord around neck so it took 3 minutes to sort breathing out. She arrived on due date!

She's a natural on breast, been practising on her fingers and fists when In utero I reckon. Ds2 not at all impressed and tho talks of baby and comments on her, he's refused mook since I got home with her. I think this may well be end of his nursing so tho we continued thro pregnancy, now she's here he no longer wants it and sharing not an option in his eyes. He is 3 and 10 months now so he got a good long time. X

Congratulations Awen. Welcome Jessica

Many congrats :) Glad she arrived safely although you must be knackered after all that! Make sure you get plenty of rest and cuddles. You never know with your DS, he might just be getting used to the idea. 3 years and 10 months is bloody good going though!

Congratulations Awen that's a fantastic birth story. Welcome Jessica! What a brilliant weight too!

3y10m is a brilliant amount of time for feeding and it sounds like he's happy with stopping.

A lovely post all round.

Congratulations Awen. These birth stories make me broody!!

Your ds might change his mind! Be prepared for that...

When ds2 was a few months old, I asked ds1 what he had thought of him when he was born. He replied "well, I thought he was silly at first, but now I love him"

I think he really had expected a playmate, despite many conversations about the baby being able to do bugger all except feed and poo.

DS1 is having his endoscopy on Thursday. Neither of us are looking forward to it terribly much

Thank you all

Lol mawbroom at thought baby was a bit silly, reckon my ds2 thinks that about his sister! Lol

My nipples are sore, purple. She has very strong latch and hard to get her mouth open wide enough. Milk pretty much coming in now too. Ctx strong when nursing and nipples hurt. Sure this I'd a phase but other exp would be good :) I'm a red head too so sensitive skin.

Birth stories making me broody too. Both dds think it would be a great idea for me to have another baby so I just need to work on dh now

Congratulations awen. Hope the pain settles down for you soon.

congratulations awen Great to read your birth story.

Hope all goes well tomoroy mawbroon.

We are visiting my folks atm and evenings have been much easier, dd mostly sleeping when ds wants to nurse to sleep, or joini in at the end when he was virtually asleep. He is definatly eating more solid done again now, but still nursing quite a bit. Dd is doing well. She seems to feed less than i remember ds doing, and to sleep more. And she's really noisy! She makes loads of cute but odd squeaking sounds! I thought it would be less worrying seamed time around, but while i don't worry as much about bf, or handleing her etc, i just worry about the ways in which she differs from ds!

How are you getting along kelly? Hope you too are finding it a bit easier.

Hope everyone else is well too...come and tell me! [hgrin]