Is Breast Best?

[ADaddy]

First of all I want to say that my heart goes out to all the women out there that are struggling trying to breastfeed their child and feeling the pressure to continue.

My wife gave birth nearly 3 weeks ago and since then has had a really rough time with breastfeeding. I just wanted to share some words with women in a similar situation. I'll put them in points to be more concise.

1. There is so much more to being a mother than just being a milk supply. Don't ever forget this!

1. This is about feeding your baby. It is too bad that they don't have "Feeding councillors" rather than just "Breastfeeding councillors".

1. Your baby's nutrition and hydration is vital. Don't feel guilty for making sure your baby has both of these.

1. The well-being of the mother is also vital. You need to be there for your baby, does your experience with breastfeeding enhance your well-being or make you feel like the contents of your babies nappies?

1. Unless there is imminent danger, Healthcare professionals will put breastfeeding above things such as sleep, washing, bonding, jaundice. It pains them to say the word "formula" so don't expect them too.

1. Healthcare professionals are mainly interested in the colour of poo, if wee is coming out and if the baby is at least gaining some weight. In that case all is well, forget the rest. This is NOT a holistic approach and one of my main bug-bears with breastfeeding promotion. There is a much bigger, far more complicated picture to consider to determine if breastfeeding really is working for you.

1. If you have a latch problem then they like that, they can help solve that. It's different when it is a supply problem, that is not always solvable and they tend to be in denial about it (mainly because it is far more difficult to solve).

1. Demand feeding:

a. Is lack or sleep good for mother or milk supply or to that end baby?
b. Is not being able to find time to eat good for anyone?
c. Is no time to wash good?
d. Does baby sleep a lot and forget to demand only to wake up ravenous and too fractious to feed?  Can't be possible, this does not fit in the ideal world of demand feeding :)
e. No routine, no structure, no way for an adult human to live?
f. Are you told, don't worry, keep going your milk supply will come through soon?
g. Feels like it is driving you insane?  Maybe it is!

1. Is the difficulty of breastfeeding affecting your bond with your baby? It is hard enough, healing, hormones, baby blues and worse, don't be pressurised into sacrificing this important step under some misguided notion that your baby will suffer by not being breastfed. He/She is likely to suffer more if you are not able to nuture this all important bond.

Of course, these questions and statements come from our personal experiences, although from what I have read on the internet, we are not alone.

If you read through my points and breastfeeding is still the right approach for you, great! If not, then do the best thing for you and the baby (yes, that is YOU too) and consider alternative approaches.

And before you ask, the only vested interest I have is in the health of my wife and baby and doing what is best for them.

Comments welcome.

cloudydays, thank you for your excellent post

ADaddy - brilliant, brilliant post. Pretty much summerises my experience perfectly. Thank you.

adaddy. Again...all together now...what makes you think your wife has problems with supply? How does she feel about the situation?

No one is suggesting you pressurise your wife. However you haven't actually told us that she wants to stop (unless i've missed something). Nor why (if she does). As she has come this far despite her problems i would imagine bf is important to her. Perhaps you could ask for advice rather than persuing a theoretical discussion.

Tiredness is part of having a baby. Are you saying your baby spends every minute on the breast and does not sleep?

The newborn feeding pattern is just that. They grow out of it

By what measure do you want to define "best"?

Thank you tiktok, but when is the cut off point? 4 weeks, 4 months?

Everyone has to make the best decision with the information they have in-front of them.

Which always brings me back to the same question, which is the title of this thread, Is Breast Best?

I think the issue is that without hearing your wife's perspective - though you are no doubt right when you say she is tired and distressed and finding it hard to make the time to care for herself - no one can avoid thinking you are looking for reasons to say to her that it's ok to stop.....and she may not want to hear that. She may be wanting to fix whatever it is that is stopping bf being a good experience for her, and her supply may actually be just fine :) She may be ok about struggling on for the moment and want support for her choice to do that....but you're not clear on what's happening.

You want the best outcomes for her and for your baby, that's clear, but it may be more complex than you think!

There is no cut off point, OP. This is for you and your wife to decide together - mainly her, of course. It doesn't work like that, with lines drawn in the sand that apply to everyone.

I don't know why you keep asking the same question. Of course breastmilk is superior in every way to formula. But that does not mean that everyone has to breastfeed at all costs.

x post. Still adaddy would it not be usefull for you to find out more about supply and the mechanisms of bf? That way you can either reassure your wife or seek solutions. I take it you have asked her why she thinks she has a problem with supply? What does she say? Is she happy to move to ff or would she prefer help to resolve her supply issues?

In answer to your question, No. Breast is NORMAL formula does not stack-up to breast on any level.

Formula is a breast milk substitute, it can never be equal to or superior to breast milk.

As a family you have to decide what is best for you, (but primarily this decision should be your wife's as no matter how your baby is fed, she will carry the overwhelming responsibility of doing those feeds), but please stop trying to make posters on this board support you in undermining your wife's breastfeeding efforts.

You are welcome toddlerwrangler.

MoonFaceMamaaaaargh

"what makes you think your wife has problems with supply? How does she feel about the situation?"

1. Because she is unable to establish a regime whereby she can keep the baby adequately and exclusively breastfed and not be at the detriment to her own health.

How does she feel. Pretty crappy, guilty, upset, lonely, judged, failed. Does that answer your question?

"By what measure do you want to define "best"?"

Exactly the point! I am not suggesting my wife, or anyone else, feed in any particular way. What I am highlighting is that considering the difficulties a lot of women experience (described in my list), we all need to step back and look whether or not it is really best for a particular person to breastfeed their baby.

And more importantly, it is about empowering mum's to challenge the pressure that is on them to breastfeed and ask themselves that exact question, is it really the best way for me to feed my baby?

If the answer is yes, great.

If the answer is no, great also.

Why? Because both outcomes are for the best.

I would not judge someone who tried and found it impossible, but I still have to say yes, breast is best. It just is!

I would judge someone who never even tried, I have to admit.

Vegetables are good for you: if your toddler won't eat carrots and screams every time you offer them, and mealtimes become a trauma, then of course it's better to let them have something else. But that doesn't alter the fact that carrots are better than biscuits, and we shouldn't have to pretend that breast isn't best just because for some people it doesn't work out.

I think the formula ads with the obviously small babies being given bottles, with lines like 'if you decide to move on from breastfeeding.....' are utterly reprehensible.

Would looking at these help? These charts show the feeding/sleeping/alert time for a newborn baby. There is no structure/routine in the day though as the baby gets older you can see they are more awake in the day and less at night.

This is normal.

Adults don't take exactly 2 weetabix with 125mls of milk and 200mls of orange juice at 7.15am, followed by 2 slices of bread, 15g of butter, 2 slices of tomato, 1 slice of ham and a 100g apple at 12.30pm, 2 sausages, 250g baked potato, 80g carrots and 125g of yoghurt at 7.15pm each and every day do they? They have days they eat more/less, more fruit one day, more cheese another, they fancy a stew one day and a salad another, one day dinner at 6pm another day dinner at 8.30pm. Why do adults get to chose how/when to eat but babies don't?

The suggestion to take your wife to a bfing support group wasn't made so you can strong arm you wife into bfing but so she can get real life help to continue bfing with supplements/build supply so she could EBF/wind down supply as SHE decides. It would also show her you are keen for her to get expert support for her own sake especially as you seem to intimating she is on the verge of PND (commenting about bfing making her insane, concerns about her mental health).

'We all need to step back and look at whether or not it is really best for a particular person to breastfeed their baby'....well, I have not seen anyone on this thread suggest that everyone must breastfeed at all costs, and plenty of us have spelled out that this is a personal decision, that takes into account many factors.

But I don't think it's 'great' if a woman decides breastfeeding is a rubbish experience for her, and she has not been able to find the joy and satisfaction in it that she was expecting. That's a woman who needs support and TLC and understanding, not a cheer leader telling her it's 'great' she switched to formula and that it doesn't matter because both outcomes are for the best ( whatever that means!)

Cut off point - often 6/7 weeks. One day you realise it's not hard anymore.

Biggest reason for maternal tiredness: cots. Co-sleeping and feeding lying down while dozing really halps sleep. I really needed sleep last night, so I brought ds into bed with me (8 months). Slept well, woke just enough to latch on and sleep again. I don't know how having to prepare a bottle in the night helps a mums to sleep... Formula won't guarantee a baby sleeps - it's just much, much harder to digest.

After the initial days/ couple of weeks ds would happily go 3/4 days without pooing. Ds1's record was 15 days -- normal (and a bonus) in a bf baby.

Bfing (can be) REALLY hard in the beginning - you reap the benefits later.

Breast milk is for humans, cows milk is for cows. (It's up to you what you choose to feed you baby, but you can't hide from the issue that formula is cow's milk with stuff added)

'The Politics of Breastfeeding' is a great book...

Throw away the timer, just feed, feed, feed. The early weeks passes.

I suffered Thrush in the nipples (more painful than childbirth easily - for me) and mastitis and shallow latch. I refused to give up. By 7 weeks things had settled. Ds1 I had pain for 5 weeks - suddenly it stopped.

Hope everything goes well. The sleepless nights don't last.

adaddy the bf vs ff debate has been done a thousand times on here. It will be done a thousand more. And they will all be forgotten in the blink of an eye.

But the decision your wife makes re how to feed your baby will be with her for a long time. That's why we keep coming back to her, and not "is breast best". It,s not as simple as switch to ff and solve all your problems. Many will persist. There may be new ones exclusive to ff. And some women struggle with guilt if they feel they ffed against their wishes, eg, were not supported to explore all possible solutions.

Also - this 4 hours between feeds (not saying you stick to this schedule) . Just take a diary of your food/ drink intake over a day. I bet you don't go much more than an hour or two without something (even just a sip of water) pasing your lips.

Ds ALWAYS has a little feed when he wakes up, but then I like to have a drink if I've fallen asleep...

Excellent summary, Moonface. It's not about breast/formula; it's about this mother and this baby and this family and their decision....nothing theoretical or textbook or 'cut off point' or anything like that, but an individual situation for them to resolve.

Breast feeding support groups are hugely helpful - or anywhere else that you can meet breastfeeding mums. I really can't recommend them enough. They are not about pressurising anyone IME, but about mums supporting each other - as well as getting out of the house and meeting new people and just having a chat.

peanutdream

"Please support your wife to succeed" "You could also drive her to a breastfeeding support group". Do you mean, "please pressure your wife to continue because I am under the notion that it is only the nutritional value of breast milk that matters"?

ADaddy God no! Only if she wants to breastfeed successfully! These things are really helpful. If she wants to, then in the long run she will be eternally grateful of your unwavering support during the early (sometimes nightmarish) days.

I understand the hellish feeling of not enough sleep (been there got that sick stained t-shirt ) but these days do NOT last forever and before she knows it your LO will be a bouncing 6 month old able to feed in a few minutes and before a bit longer will be a teenager unable to get out of bed. . Even in three weeks your baby will be bigger stronger and more efficient - and better at breastfeeding which will give your wife more sleep.

But all of this is only relevant if deep down, she wants to carry on but feels she has supply issues (which as someone said, she might) but this will only be truly ascertained by someone who knows about breastfeeding which is why I suggested that being her taxi and waiting outside a breastfeeding group might be something she wants to do. If not, then being driven to a support group would be really annoying, I'm sure.

Incidentally, lots of the women who stop wished they had carried on. This is fact, and shows that the grass might not be so green on the other side.

ADaddy - First time around I would say 'I've been there'. There is a massive shock of the realities of breastfeeding against your expectations of what it will be like. The amount of time a feed can take, the lack of sleep, the new responsibilities - it's a new experience. The adjectives you used - I would say they all applied and I'm sure my DH was in a very similar position to you - watching all this going on and concerned about what to do.

All I can say is take one feed at a time. I don't mean it to be patronising - I did have some formula on hand just in case but I just kept thinking one more feed.....one more..... and then I got to 4 weeks, then 8 then 4 months and just kept going.

There are some good people on MN who can help with breastfeeding issues such as tik tok and good people out there in RL who will do the same - just find one who your wife feels is supportive - it might make all the difference. Life with a newborn is TOUGH. Whatever you decide to do. Parenting is TOUGH and lots of decisions will follow where you will not be sure of what the 'best' thing is to do - the 'what ifs'.....will always be lurking.

In answer to OP's opening question: Breast is nutritionally superior, yes. But best? No.

ADaddy I absolutely recognise what you're describing and I don't think you're trying to undermine your wife's attempts to breastfeed as has been suggested, I think you're trying to make sure your wife's attempts to breastfeed don't undermine her relationship overall with your new baby.

My baby is 5 weeks old and is mixed fed expressed breast milk and formula. I'm fairly sure most of the time that we took the right decisions, especially
when I think back to how dark those days and nights of exclusive BFing were for me. My experience with BF was painful, physically, mentally and emotionally. My partner was very worried about both of us and I think wanted to protect me and our son from my own incredibly strong desire to BF at all costs. It took 3 weeks for my nipples to heal. It will take a lot longer for me to forgive myself for not being able to BF and in fact I'm still trying to latch him on every couple of days to see if something has changed or if I will have got the knack somehow. Actually it was better today but I too would face massive supply issues now if I tried to exclusively breastfeed. I have accused my partner of not doing enough to support me (on a practical level like bringing drinks/food etc) when I've been upset about it which is probably unfair of me as we were both getting over a fairly horrendous labour and birth. I think a lot of it depends on personality type. I'm sure you are doing all you can to support your wife and will continue to do so, and you will know her personality and what she is capable of withstanding.

Congratulations on your baby, by the way! I hope you all get through this in whatever way is best for you.

i still don't know what you mean sorry adaddy. How does she expect it to be at the moment? How does this differ from what she is experiencing? As said up thread alot of normal bf behaviour is mistaken for problematic. Especially when people expect ff baby behaviour. Maybe if you could be more specific about her problems we can suggest strategies to help her get through the next few weeks.

Having a three week old baby is detrimental for your health. Never mind bf.

As for how she feels, i also ment in that does she want to continue to bf or to stop? Either way she could do with advice to help pursue that aim.

Sorry we keep x posting. Hope this makes sense...i'm on my phone so can't c&p which would make things clearer.

tik tok thanks

It would be great if you could get your wife to post on here.

My milk did not come in for 5 days and I was never engorged. DD lost more than 10% of her bodyweight by day 5. However by day 7 she had gained 100g. DD fed for an hour at a time. She had jaundice and I woke her for feeds every 3 then 4 hours if she didn't demand because the jaundice made her sleepy. By 10 days she was waking for feeds.

For what its worth here's my thoughts on your comments.

1. Yes of course, it would never occur to me that I was just a milk source. I am a source of comfort (in all ways from feeding to bathing to changing to cuddles).

1. This is about feeding your baby. Yes, absolutely but the urge to bf can be overwhelming and a mother needs support to do it. A dad being lovely and saying don't worry, lets switch to formula can be incredibly demoralising (speaking from experience). When a woman complains, its not because she wants her DH to come up with a solution, it can be just to vent and get support. Also, remember, the baby crying is not just about hunger- babies can have an overwhelming urge to suckle and a lot is comfort sucking and there is nothing wrong with it. It can be distressing for a baby to be denied comfort sucking.

1. Your baby's nutrition and hydration is vital. Yes and La Leche league, NCT and Breastfeeding groups can help make sure this happens. If that is the route your DW wants to take.

1. The well-being of the mother is also vital. Yes, but I would argue that initially the wellbeing of the baby is most vital and climbing into bed with the baby and feed feed feeding it while you get help with being provided with food and water and a chance to shower in the early days helps to ensure this best start for the baby. Google Babymooning.

1. Not in my experience. They did not give 2 hoots which feeding method I chose, but provided help if I asked for it.

1. Plenty of wet nappies is a really useful indicator that your milk is going in. Poos are less reliable. Its common for babies to poo loads every day and its also common for them to poo really infrequently as breastmilk is very efficient. Colour of poo is a good indicator that the baby is getting hindmilk (the fattier stuff after the thirst quenching foremilk). A baby can still get milk but on a poor latch. this is another example of an indicator if bfing is for you and you can get help to sort out latch.

1. Soft empty feeling breasts is not an indicator of poor supply. Plenty of women, myself included never had engorgement or breasts that felt full then empty.

1. Demand feeding:

a. Is lack or sleep good for mother or milk supply or to that end baby? Demand feeding (as long as the baby isn't jaundiced and sleeping too much) is the best way to build up supply. It gets easier. I did not demand feed at first as DD was too sleepy. I woke her for feeds.
b. Is not being able to find time to eat good for anyone? Eat one handed or put the baby in a sling to feed there while you eat.
c. Is no time to wash good? Hand the baby over to someone else while you wash or make the baby comfortable and lay it on the bathroom floor in a comfy nest and shower dead quick.

d. Does baby sleep a lot and forget to demand only to wake up ravenous and too fractious to feed? Can't be possible, this does not fit in the ideal world of demand feeding. In the early days if required, wake the baby to feed.
e. No routine, no structure, no way for an adult human to live? Its not about the adult at that stage. Remember in the womb, the baby got a constant food supply. Being put into an artificial feeding routine may be distressing. Write down how often you eat and most importantly drink. You can bet your bottom dollar you have something to drink more than 3 hourly.
f. Are you told, don't worry, keep going your milk supply will come through soon? Yes and it does. Keep putting your baby to the breast and feed feed feed.
g. Feels like it is driving you insane? Maybe it is! This too shall pass. Its only for a very short time in your life.

1. Is the difficulty of breastfeeding affecting your bond with your baby? It is hard enough, healing, hormones, baby blues and worse, don't be pressurised into sacrificing this important step under some misguided notion that your baby will suffer by not being breastfed. He/She is likely to suffer more if you are not able to nuture this all important bond. Again, google baby mooning.

I am sorry if I have repeated anything others have said. I am so sorry your wife is having a rough time. If she can, get her to post on here for help. Also, find your local bfing group- they really are wonderful and you cannot see them too soon.

Oh and also, the screaming- birth is hard and the baby can have a cracking headache from it all. Breastmilk has analgesic properties. Waking upset can be an evolutionary thing that the baby is inbuilt to cry to alert his parents that he is alone and needs rescuing before the sabre tooth tigers come and get him. Its normal for a newborn to want to be attached to mum. Its the safest place to be.