Is Breast Best?

[ADaddy]

First of all I want to say that my heart goes out to all the women out there that are struggling trying to breastfeed their child and feeling the pressure to continue.

My wife gave birth nearly 3 weeks ago and since then has had a really rough time with breastfeeding. I just wanted to share some words with women in a similar situation. I'll put them in points to be more concise.

1. There is so much more to being a mother than just being a milk supply. Don't ever forget this!

1. This is about feeding your baby. It is too bad that they don't have "Feeding councillors" rather than just "Breastfeeding councillors".

1. Your baby's nutrition and hydration is vital. Don't feel guilty for making sure your baby has both of these.

1. The well-being of the mother is also vital. You need to be there for your baby, does your experience with breastfeeding enhance your well-being or make you feel like the contents of your babies nappies?

1. Unless there is imminent danger, Healthcare professionals will put breastfeeding above things such as sleep, washing, bonding, jaundice. It pains them to say the word "formula" so don't expect them too.

1. Healthcare professionals are mainly interested in the colour of poo, if wee is coming out and if the baby is at least gaining some weight. In that case all is well, forget the rest. This is NOT a holistic approach and one of my main bug-bears with breastfeeding promotion. There is a much bigger, far more complicated picture to consider to determine if breastfeeding really is working for you.

1. If you have a latch problem then they like that, they can help solve that. It's different when it is a supply problem, that is not always solvable and they tend to be in denial about it (mainly because it is far more difficult to solve).

1. Demand feeding:

a. Is lack or sleep good for mother or milk supply or to that end baby?
b. Is not being able to find time to eat good for anyone?
c. Is no time to wash good?
d. Does baby sleep a lot and forget to demand only to wake up ravenous and too fractious to feed?  Can't be possible, this does not fit in the ideal world of demand feeding :)
e. No routine, no structure, no way for an adult human to live?
f. Are you told, don't worry, keep going your milk supply will come through soon?
g. Feels like it is driving you insane?  Maybe it is!

1. Is the difficulty of breastfeeding affecting your bond with your baby? It is hard enough, healing, hormones, baby blues and worse, don't be pressurised into sacrificing this important step under some misguided notion that your baby will suffer by not being breastfed. He/She is likely to suffer more if you are not able to nuture this all important bond.

Of course, these questions and statements come from our personal experiences, although from what I have read on the internet, we are not alone.

If you read through my points and breastfeeding is still the right approach for you, great! If not, then do the best thing for you and the baby (yes, that is YOU too) and consider alternative approaches.

And before you ask, the only vested interest I have is in the health of my wife and baby and doing what is best for them.

Comments welcome.

You sound like a really nice man ADaddy, I hope you are also helping your wife in a practical sense (it sounds like you do) get through this. The newborn days are very hard, and on top of that because breastfeeding can be very difficult to establish for a lot of people I think the temptation is there to want an immediate solution.

What is most important here is, does your wife want to continue trying to breastfeed? If she does please support her. If she doesn't then support her too. Please don't keep telling her that she has a problem with her milk supply. It can become a self-fulfilling prophecy, with the mum thinking she doesn't have enough and therefore offering top-ups regularly rather than giving her supply a chance to build up.

TruthSweet

Thanks for the info on the Infant Feeding Coordinators, it would be interesting to see their availability, why does it take Mumsnet users to inform us of this and not the midwife?

I started to address your points one at a time but realised that it would be counter productive to compare our experience against your expectations.

And that is the point, each person is different and should be assessed as such, comparing to a norm is not always the best approach. The bigger picture of warmth, love, comfort and nurturing you describe are the goals to aim for, regardless of the method of feeding.

Thanks megapixels.

In-fact, I don't talk about issues with supply at all, this is driven by her.

Instead I try to respond to the difficulties she faces and support her in any way I can without imposing any expectation at all.

But thank you again for the words of encouragement

yes it is

1. Of course, no-one would suggest otherwise, but on the flip side, bfing doesn?t mean that?s all you are.

1. there are Infant Feeding Co-odinators in hospitals I believe, who do not just deal with bfing issues.

1. I don?t think anyone would suggest bfing to the detriment of a baby?s health.

1. it is possible to bf and look after yourself. However, don?t underestimate how much of what makes you feel crap is having a new baby rather than bfing!

1. Countless posts on here would actually suggest otherwise, you hear so many stories about hcps suggesting formula when it?s not really necessary.

1. it?s a very simple test to see if the baby is getting enough nutrition ? nappies are often the first indicator of a problem.

1. Supply problems are rare. It is however very common for people to think they have a supply problem as their newborn wants to feed every hour. This is what newborns to in order to establish supply (as well as for comfort). Unlimited access to the breast will ensure the baby has all the milk it needs. IMO all new bfing mothers should be given a prescription to sit on the sofa with the baby for the first few weeks and have their partner run around after them They should all be given the link to this board upon discharge from hospital.

1. Demand feeding is essential to create good supply. Lack of sleep will not impact on supply, and that along with not having time to eat or wash and having a lack of structure or routine are byproducts of having a newborn, not of bfing. Demand feeding is the recommendation for FF as well. Babies who sleep a lot and forget to demand have an issue in that they have a lack of energy due to not having had enough milk ? in this case scheduled feeding is required temporarily to get the energy levels up.

1. Feeding shouldn?t be the be all and end all of bonding ? if it were fathers wouldn?t bond with bf babies, and I think anyone who saw my DS?s face when his daddy gets home from work would agree that there is a definite bond there. However, feeding is undoubtably an emtional issue and it can lead to a lot of unhappiness when there are problems ? you just need to read the posts on here to see that.

You have obviously had a lot of problems over the last few weeks, do you think it might be helpful to address those acutal issues to see if anyone on here can help, rather than have a general discussion? There are a lot of very knowledgeable people on here.

Adaddy I won't go into most of your points as I think other posters have addressed these really well, however, regarding the nutrition/hydration suggestion you made above.

Breast milk is the optimal source of nutrition AND hydratn for human babies. Even during very hot weather and in much warmer climates than our own breast milk does not need to be supplemented with additional water (in contrast with formula) due to the way in which a baby feeds from the breast and the way in which breast milk is released from the breast. Because the fat particles are sticky, the first part of a feed is a very watery substance like skimmed milk (sometimes referred to as fore milk) which quenches thirst.

In extreme situations where a baby is extremely dehydrated due to illness, supplemental fluid may have to be given but please do not confuse this with normal day to day requirements.

Yes, that's why you need to speak to someone who is qualified in bfing management and can help you either increase supply or supplement without a detrimental effect on your wife's supply. Even if you need help winding down bfing a BFC will be able to help try calling one of the helplines.

On the statistical distribution of supply, this is nature, as is the statistical distribution of weight and height etc.

There will always be an "norm/average", there will always be a standard deviation and there will always be outliers.

Or maybe I am wrong, perhaps every woman produces exactly the same amount of milk ;)

As I mentioned previously, my wife has entirely led the discussion on supply, however, I trust her and have seen the immense effort she has put in to resolve this to know that this is a very real possibility. I would only be compounding the problem by not accepting the situation, instead we are trying to move forward with it.

But bigger picture thinking means that, it is not really a problem, just a choice that we make at this point.

First of all, I'm sorry to hear you and your wife are finding it such tough going with your new baby.

With reference to number 8:

We live in a culture where most babies are bottlefed for the most part and this means that a lot of knowledge has been lost about the art/science of breastfeeding - not many people have mums, grannies, etc. to turn to who can give suggestions/reassurance about it that are well informed.Off the top of most people's heads, they would be able to tell you more about ff than bf because that's what most people are most familiar with. Babies are expected to be given a bottle and then sleep 3-4 hours happily at a stretch in cots by themselves and if they don't conform to this, it's seen as a problem.

We also live in a culture where people live in nuclear families in their own 'boxes' - this means that once fathers go back to work after a fortnight (if that), mothers are left to get on with things by themselves without anyone to hand them a cup of tea/hot meal/hold the baby while they go to the toilet in peace.And it's a tough combination, I really struggled with this with my DD.

Unfortunately, nobody has told babies this and it takes a lot of rethinking to relax and meet your newborns needs (which do revolve around frequent feeding[which as already said is more than just nutrition, as at any stage in life for a human] /sleeping/being unhappy being put down while sleeping and promptly waking up to demand feeding again).

Sleep deprivation can be countered to an extent by sleeping when the baby sleeps and/or feeding while lying down (if not safely co-sleeping) - I cannot believe I sat up to feed DD every 2 hours at night on the end of the bed at the start, I was a mess during the day compared to this time where I have a toddler and a newborn and because I co-sleep with DS generally I feel fine(apart from one run of bad nights, surprisingly enough with with DD).

You also can have showers/wash your hair when someone else is in the house, even if this is at night - you'll be clean(er) and ready to go in the morning that way.

The effects of a traumatic birth can last for weeks or months (had forceps with DD, looking back I'm not surprised I found even getting off the sofa a huge achievement for ages) and even if the birth was straightforward I actually think the time-intensive nature of the early days of bfing is a good thing as it forces new mothers to sit down and recuperate physically from the birthing process.

Hi ADaddy. I think you are trying to say that breast is not best for your baby in your situation.

However I would say that most BFing mums have been in your wife's shoes during the early weeks. It is common to spend hours and hours sitting on the sofa, and you can feed for an hour and then fter a 10 minute nap (usually when you've just made a cup of tea :o ) baby wants to feed again. So naturally we all worry that we have not got enough milk. But as others say this is just life with a newborn.

In this situation then swapping to formula may well be easier but not necessarily best. I take your point that your wife is tired and frustrated with BFing and formula would certainly help with this as you can do night feeds and the baby might sleep better. But the fact is that BM is still best for the baby - it has been perfected by nature over several millenia.
If HCPs didn't encourage BFing then very few would survive the first few weeks.

It does get easier (honestly). You and your wife need to decide what is best for your family together. Good Luck.

Adaddy, what makes your wife think she has supply issues?

Hully, you're wrong. Breast's overrated. I like a nice drumstick.

ADaddy, I think the basic conceit of what you're saying is fine. You don't have to defend your choices if they're properly informed decisions based on the health and happiness of both the mother and the baby.

But it's very difficult not to use typical bfed baby behaviour and bfing patterns as sticks with which to beat the concept of bfing.

Hi TheRealMBJ

Accepted, breast milk is in most aspects, superior to formula milk. It has to be asked if the superiority is so significant as to have any detrimental effect on a baby's health to feed formula. With proper information about the differences and how to deal with them, I doubt it does.

Still, it is all about bigger picture thinking and not focussing on just the quality of breast milk. Quality of life (for the whole family) is an important factor in baby development and well-being. I am suggesting that each individual weighs up what they want and what it means to them and not feel pressurised or felt they have failed just because on balance, breastfeeding is not the best option for them.

It's better than formula. The end.

The research shows that mothers do have differing amounts of ducts (The Human Lactation Group) but that overall they can still produce the same amount of milk over a day.

You can drink the same quantity of water in a day out of a shot glass as a pint glass but you will need to refill your shot glass far more often than the pint glass (i.e. baby will need to feed more frequently from a mother with less milk producing tissue than one with more - this is unrelated to bf size though).

There are exceptions to this - if the mother has had breast surgery or trauma, or has a condition like PCOS (1/3 of PCOS mothers have low and 1/3 normal, 1/3 over supply), or a condititon like hypoplastic tubular breasts.

It is hard to have a reasonable debate on this topic, because people's personal experiences, expectations, regrets, triumphs etc get in the way :(

But if there are healthcare professionals who only look at bf and dont consider it in the social and emotional context of the mother's needs and wishes, then they are delivering poor care. This has nothing to do with the inherent 'qualities' of breast or formula milk.

You say you accept that 'breast is best' - actually, it's not really, it's the physiological norm, and formula milk is not the physiological norm. This difference is significant and of course a baby's health is affected by it. It can be comforting to say 'it doesn't really matter' and to 'doubt' as you do, that the differences have a detrimental effect, but the evidence is otherwise, though it is hard to predict in any one individual baby.

Of course it's not the only thing that matters in infant care - I would put bf some way below loving and responsive and emotionally rich relationships, for instance, on a scale. If breastfeeding is truly getting in the way of loving, then something needs to be fixed quick - often the breastfeeding can be fixed.

Supply is not the same across all women. But supply does not matter - it's INTAKE that counts! I wish the distinction was appreciated ! Some mothers produce smaller amounts of breastmilk and have smaller storage capacities. No Big Deal! The baby just feeds more often to compensate.

So part of your difficulty in this is that you are asking the wrong questions, and making the wrong assumptions....I hope your wife gets the help she needs and with your support, makes the choices that are right for her :)

I don't want to be brutal or insensitive at what is obviously a difficult time for you and your family but breastmilk is not superior to formula milk "in most aspects", it's superior in all aspects - sorry, couldn't let that go.

Kellymom has some good reading on this matter.

ADaddy, you sound as a very supportive hubby, I applaud you for this post, no breast is not always best, but at the same time one has to find balance and try to resume normal life after the birth of a baby. I say whatever works for three of you it's the right decision . My second DD was bourn very big 10b 3oz, normal, unassisted birth, was screaming for food from the word go, it took good 72 hours to get sufficient flow of breast milk for DD and while at the hospital I took a very good advise from a normal more mature midwife who suggested we bottle feed DD so not to get too distressed, while pumping with strong electronic pump to get first coloustrum and milk flowing, I am so glad I have listened to her, DD was on the formula for two and half days, sleeping and eating, very content, I slept, ate, rested and on third day started feeding DD with no problems, so you see all is possible as long as you have a plan, by all means if you are finding(your wife) that breast feeding for you don't beat yourself about it, do what is right for you.

jolly good post, tiktok

ADaddy

I love your post- it summed up my experience of trying to BF. After getting my baps out to every HV and BF 'expert' within a 10 mile radius of home with them trying to show me what to do, it making no difference, 6 weeks of trying to at every feed to breastfeed a baby who wriggled so much it was like trying to breast feed a salmon, giving up each time then expressing 8 times per day for an hour a time and then feeding DS and then sterlising bottles, I gave up.

I was gutted because like your wife it was tattoed on my forehead by the NCT and the HVs that breast was best and that came before all else. Both grandparents had questioned my sanity in persisting for so long, I was utterly miserable, I was spending 8 hrs per day bonding with a industrial double pump rather than my new baby. My partner whilst 100% supportive of whether I persisted in breast feeding or reverted to bottle had to work so could not do everything else as some have suggested on here and if he was working he needed to sleep to be able to do his job. So he couldn't be there 24/7 to allow me to focus exclusively on feeding. I really got mad with all the people who said well you can sleep when the baby sleeps, what about the other stuff you need to do in the day, it doesn't just go away because you have a baby!

Two years on I wonder what all the fuss was about and why I put myself through so much misery and distress for something that just didn't suit me. Do what you think is best for you, your wife and your baby and don't stress about it. FWIW, it will get much better soon whatever way you decide to feed your baby.

Congratulations on your new baby ADaddy.

I just hope your wife is not hearing all the

"your baby can't need feeding again"
"are you still feeding that baby"
"won't that baby let you put it down"
"ooh give baby to me I will settle them"

basically at this age all baby will want to do is feed pretty much constantly.

Many first visitors (especially those who did not BF) were full of such helpful comments to me so I felt undermined by them.

Encourage your wife to go to bed/put her feet up and learn different techniques/holds for feeding. Feed her and water her and give her the remote control and the telephone and the keyboard and let her chill out whilst feeding her little one.

Ultimatley she must do what is right for her and if BF is what she wants to do even you suggesting FF may suggest to her she can not do it well enough. Just make sure you encourage her to do what she wants not necessarily what you think she wants/what you think. Just watch out for the constipation with the FF as you mentioned that earlier and FF reducing supply. Try getting her some Fennel tea encourage her to drink/eat plenty. I BF for cake!

Hope everything works out for you both and yes you have to do what works for you as a family. Just give her all the support you can and tell her babies don't read the manuals, they don't know they should be having 4 hours in between feeds. If they are hungry feed them. Her breasts may feel empty now compared to the engorged feeling she may have felt initially but they will still be producing milk.

Adaddy SOH is correct. Typical bf behaviour is often used to beat bf with a stick.

If your wife does not want to continue breastfeeding and feels that the choice she is making is based on full information and support, then there is no need to continue to try to justify her choices. However, if she is making a decision to change to formula against her will because of inadequate support it may lead to feelings of guilt and inadequacy later on. As the father and partner your role is to supper her and your baby in achieving her goals, not act as an apologist.

There are many, many, many well run studies that do prove that breast milk is superior on many, many, many levels on a physical, mental and emotional level for both mum and baby. However, it is worth remembering that breast milk is the biological (evolutionary) norm and that it is infect formula that do not meet the nutritional and health standards of breast milk.

Your baby is still very, very, very young and no matter how babies are fed, at this age they are extremely exhausting.

My babies at that age spent 23 hours out of 24 hanging off a tit. Nobody tells you that before you have em, but it passes. It passes.

voiture - no one would argue that you did not do everything to make bf work.

But please don't suggest that NCT thinks bf comes before all else. I am an NCT breastfeeding counsellor and we do not think that way.

Tiktok

Then why does no one - HVs, the NCT give any advice on bottle feeding? All we got was the knitted boob! Sorry by for me breast feeding was like being in a horror film!