OK, I get BF, but am totally fucked off with the smugness

[FunnysInTheGarden]

Most of us are failed BF, but the tone on here recently has really pissed me off. We generally FF? Non? So why the smug shit and the passive aggressiveness towards those who have to/chose to FF?

So tempted to name names, but I won't.

Just stop being so smug and holier than thou please, some people

it seems that FunnysInTheGarden has me down as a smug failed-BFer .

No, this thread was an attack on all of you who subscribe to that general way of thinking. I am totally fucked off with the amount of threads I come across where someone asks a completely normal question about FF only to be bombarded with unhelpful answers from a small but vocal minority.

Funny - what is your definition of an "unhelpful answer" to a FF question?

IIRC for my formula feeding days everything you need to know about it is written on the back of the tin.

Okay, it's just that you said in the OP "Not mentioning any names" and then jumped on taboulah as soon as she appeared.

Wondering idly if I'm included in the "all of you" now and what exactly the "general way of thinking" is?

Funny, you demand evidence but when it is provided, as it has been on several occasions, you dismiss it. You refuse to accept any evidence which might disprove your assertions.

You are therefore not debating or discussing anything.

I suggest that you are a nutcase with little to add. I also think you are a bit dim for failing to understand, again and again, that formula is not poison, but that incorrectly made up formula can cause food poisoning. Like chicken. Which is also not poisonous.

Whic threads are you talking about Funny?

Nothing passive about me.

If you couldnt bf for whatever reason i can see why you would be upset. i dont think its right if you couldnt bf and people knowingly made you feel rubbish. thats not fair.

BUT if you choose to ff why would you care if your happy with your choice? you wouldnt if you were happy enough and chose to ff!

One where, based on very scant evidence FF's are told they will give their babies salmonella or worse by not boiling water and adding powder at 70 degrees. when the evidence shows that the risk of this is that 1 baby per year over the last 40 years will fall ill, with a mortality rate of between 20-50%. Not to mention the unquantified number of babies who have D&V - a number which no-one has yet quantified.

I think you are scaremongering.

"It's not the formula that's causing the problem is it? It's how it's made up."

Formula strips the intestines of protective components of BM (as does any non-BM substance). It's not just about how it's made up. Again, just the way it is.

Doesn't make me smug, though. Nor does it make formula intrinsically bad.

Thanks MGF I love you too.

Now if you would like to provide some evidence........?

"One where, based on very scant evidence FF's are told they will give their babies salmonella or worse by not boiling water and adding powder at 70 degrees. when the evidence shows that the risk of this is that 1 baby per year over the last 40 years will fall ill, with a mortality rate of between 20-50%. Not to mention the unquantified number of babies who have D&V - a number which no-one has yet quantified.

I think you are scaremongering."

U-huh, yes, you're right, I am.

easy to give a when you have nothing to back your position....................

"If you can BF then that is fantastic, but there are some on here who have smugness written though them like a stick of rock simply because they BF and so feel able to opine how shit formula manufacturers are. Actually, I don't think they are all BF, I think some people here have a hidden agenda."

Funny - do you think I have a hidden agenda?

And if so, what is it?

jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/full/285/4/413?maxtoshow=&hits=10&RESULTFORMAT=&fulltext=breastfeeding&searchid=1&FIRSTINDEX=0&resourcetype=HWCIT

Really, there's loads and loads of infant feeding studies. You don't really want to see them - you could find some easily enough yourself if you did.

and you mention taboulah in another thread about BF.

funny I could bore myself silly with listing evidence for you but as you've ignored all posted already and have posted your own assertations about research with no links I assume you're mad, or a troll, or just too dull to debate with, so I lost interest.

Back to my

Funny - what is your main issue - bottom line.

Presumably you agree that BF is natural. FF is a substitute.

I like what WHO says here:

"Over the past decades, evidence for the health advantages of breastfeeding and recommendations for practice have continued to increase. WHO can now say with full confidence that breastfeeding reduces child mortality and has health benefits that extend into adulthood. On a population basis, exclusive breastfeeding for the first six months of life is the recommended way of feeding infants, followed by continued breastfeeding with appropriate complementary foods for up to two years or beyond."

"To enable mothers to establish and sustain exclusive breastfeeding for six months, WHO and UNICEF recommend:"

?Initiation of breastfeeding within the first hour of life;
?Exclusive breastfeeding - that is, the infant only receives breastmilk without any additional food or drink, not even water;
?Breastfeeding on demand - that is, as often as the child wants, day and night;
?No use of bottles, teats or pacifiers.
Breastmilk is the natural first food for babies, it provides all the energy and nutrients that the infant needs for the first months of life, and it continues to provide up to half or more of a child?s nutritional needs during the second half of the first year, and up to one-third during the second year of life.

"Breastmilk promotes sensory and cognitive development, and protects the infant against infectious and chronic diseases. Exclusive breastfeeding reduces infant mortality due to common childhood illnesses such as diarrhoea or pneumonia, and helps for a quicker recovery during illness."

"Breastfeeding contributes to the health and well-being of mothers, it helps to space children, reduces the risk of ovarian cancer and breast cancer, increases family and national resources, is a secure way of feeding and is safe for the environment."

"While breastfeeding is a natural act, it is also a learned behaviour. An extensive body of research has demonstrated that mothers and other caregivers require active support for establishing and sustaining appropriate breastfeeding practices. WHO and UNICEF launched the Baby-Friendly Hospital Initiative (BFHI) in 1992, to strengthen maternity practices to support breastfeeding. The BFHI contributes to improving the establishment of exclusive breastfeeding worldwide and, coupled with support throughout the health system, can help mothers sustain exclusive breastfeeding."

Please, ladies who FF - give yourself a break! You know BF is natural, FF a substitute - you did your best in your individual circumstances and in the culture in which we live.

Don't you ever wonder why the BF rates are so llow in this country - it seems that we could not survive without formula.

If you don't wonder this - then fine don't give BF/FF another thought.

I do wonder about it and even though it can be very hard to question your own experiences - this is what I have done - and concluded that BF failed due to the FF culture.

I was annoyed that formula packets did not fully explain the guidelines or the options for making formula.

I am insanely annoyed by formula ads.

That's my hidden agenda!

"Not to mention the unquantified number of babies who have D&V - a number which no-one has yet quantified."

I don't think anybody has counted them. Therefore there won't be a number to quote. It doesn't mean they don't exist!

FWIW I agree with you, the risks are small. However there IS an elevated risk overall with FF and you can't deny that. As with anything which potentially introduces bacteria into anybody's digestive system. Whether that risk is small or not it's still there. It can be reduced further by following the recommended guidelines to make up formula. Whether or not you do this is up to you and evidently you've decided the risk is too small to bother. Which is fine! But just because you have decided the risk is so small it's negligible to YOU, it doesn't mean that we should stop telling anybody else about the risk. They may well feel differently. Give everyone the information, and they can make their own decision, yes?

Nobody's said that feeding formula or preparing it incorrectly is DEFINITELY going to make a baby ill. All they have said is that it increases the risk.

Evidence please, in a proper link. Please OCC do bore yourself silly......post some evidence. I suspect it is scant.

Tab yes I do. Why else would you post so prolifically on FF discussions when you are clearly so anti FF?

DuelingFanjo - which thread?

Yes, BB but as I have always said risk has to be taken in context. Without that how can you assess the risk?

"Evidence please, in a proper link"

now you're just being silly.

Well exactly, so you also want more information to be available. So what is the difference between that and what other posters want, which in the majority, is for more accurate information to be widely available about FF?