OK, I get BF, but am totally fucked off with the smugness

[FunnysInTheGarden]

Most of us are failed BF, but the tone on here recently has really pissed me off. We generally FF? Non? So why the smug shit and the passive aggressiveness towards those who have to/chose to FF?

So tempted to name names, but I won't.

Just stop being so smug and holier than thou please, some people

There are some really excellent posts here.

Where has anyone accused someone else of being a 'failed' breastfeeder or been smug about their own breastfeeding?

People stop breastfeeding or don't attempt breastfeeding for all sorts of reasons. Whatever their reasons, they are real and personal to them. I wouldn't tell anyone they had failed. We all have the choice as to how to feed our babies (except a very small minority who are physically unable to breastfeed).

In fact, I wish we could get rid of this guilt culture around breastfeeding because it doesn't help anyone. It just perpetuates myths and misinformation which screws up new parents who haven't even tried it yet. It also fuels those who want to see others stop breastfeeding. "Oh, you don't want to be tied to the sofa like that... isn't he getting a bit old for that? Are you sure your milk is enough, he looks hungry?'

If you stop breastfeeding, get rid of the guilt. It wasn't working for you or making you happy for whatever reason. Fine. Be proud of your decision and reasons and don't make up excuses.

Formula companies are evil, though. They are responsible for thousands of deaths in the third world. They also market dishonestly, perpetuating myths about breastfeeding (like you must be eating a healthy diet of leafy vegetables to breastfeed).

I don't feel smug that I have sucessfully breastfed three babies but I do feel proud, just as I think every woman should feel proud of every parenting achievement. Being a parent is very hard work and when you have those days when your kids endlessly misbehave, don't want to try hard at school, want to spend endless hours watching TV, fight with eachother, only eat junk food etc. it's very easy to feel tremendous guilt and wonder where you went wrong. Therefore it is good for us to have achievements which we can feel proud of. For me one of those achievements is breastfeeding, although I do have others. And so do all the other mums out there. So if I ever come accross as smug about breastfeeding it's not because I want to make others feel bad - after the struggles I had BF DS1 I'm the last person to want to do that - but maybe I do want to make myself feel good. I am more than ready to congratulate any other mum on their DC successes and I think it would be nice if we could all feel happy for eachothers successes - we all need those moments when other parents say "well done for....." because the next moment our DCs may well bring us down a peg or two!

I have never seen formula referred to as poison on Mumsnet.

My advice to you Funnys is to hide this topic.
One of the pros of FFing is you don't need support/discussion/whatever: just make up a bottle as prescribed on the tin and forget it.
If you can't do that you probably need to look at why.

IMVHO.

MoonFaceMama - facts. How about what goes in to formula and why it's inferior to breastmilk. Drop the negativity. Drop the IT MAY MAKE YOUR CHILD ILL!. It may make them better. Stranger things have happened.

Excellent post Bertie. I agree with every word.

(Of course, that's why it's excellent )

funny you've lost it. askin for research/links that ff causes plooks/piles/halitosis/illness. you will be inundated i tell ya

imho,support mums with choices made (whatever they are).in the here and now of feeding the baby.not what ifs and coulda shoulda woulda

timothy let's say that formula is made up using water which is not boiling, and with formula not being sterile there's some bacteria in there which causes a stomach upset, that could cause the baby to become ill.

Technically, therefore, formula can make your baby ill. This is one reason it's inferior.

??

Well to start with there are a huge amount of sugars in formula to match the natural sweetness of breast milk.

And then there is the fact that instead of giving something your body has made, you are giving something made from cows milk and adjusted to be suitable for human consumption.

Yes, formula has helped numerous babies and their families, and for that it can be a life saver, but the idea that it is exactly the same as breast milk is pure stupidity. Regardless of whether you have chosen from the off to FF for whatever reason, or have battled for months to make BFing work to then decide to switch, its not smug to say that breastfeeding is best for a baby.

Formula milk is inferior to breastmilk for all sorts of reasons.

There are dozens of studies that show breastfed babies have reduced rates of SIDS, cancer, obesity, diabetes and other illnesses over their lifetime.

There are all sorts of immune properties in breastmilk that are impossible to replicate. It is also impossible to replicate the constantly changing taste and consistency of breastmilk which shifts with their needs and introduces them to new flavours.

However, having a mother who is exhausted, in pain and resentful is inferior to having a happy, calm mother and living in a cardboard box with unhappy parents in poverty is probably inferior to having a mother who enjoys work.

So choosing formula is a reasonable thing to do. I just wish people were honest about it.

So what should I have said to my MW when she accused me of 'starving' my baby??

Is this an attack on me?

I have come in for quite a lot of flak over the last few weeks.

I am a "failed" BFer also you know.

I know funny and lots of others have issues with me posting info about the guidelines on making formula.

Above all I would like people to know what these guidelines are and understand them and that there are a range of options for making formula.

Thread where funny asked me about evidence

Thread I started because I dislike formula advertising - is this the type of thread pissing you off funny?

I am totally in support of women who choose to FF from the start/women who choose to move on to FF/feel they have to move on to FF.

I don't find my views to be incompatible with the fact that breast milk is the natural food for a baby and that formula is an unatural, inferior substitute - of course it is!

I strongly believe that the FF culture in this country lead to me and many 1000's of other women not receiving the support required to continue to BF.

This is why I support babymilk action - which incidentally is about safer feeding.

Breastmilk substitutes are legitimate products for when a child is not breastfed and does not have access to expressed or donor breastmilk. Companies should comply with composition and labelling requirements and other Code requirements to reduce risks -independently of government measures. Parents have a right to accurate, independent information.Baby Milk Action is not anti-baby milk. Our work protects all mothers and infants from irresponsible marketing.

I wish that there was not formula advertising in this country.

I do not think that formula companies provide enough info on their packs.

Anyone bothering to look into this topic would be appauled to know the impact of FF on children in developing countries. That is due to high relative cost of formula/lack of access to clean water/sterilising equipment/kettles etc.

Really with such a low rate of BFing in this country BFing mothers supporting each other and yes congratulating each other here on MN is understandable and lovely.

I will say that of course BFing Mums who have not "failed" of course do not know first hand what others have gone through.

Anyone suffering with guilt needs to try to process it - not wallow in it - eg maybe don't lurk/post on lots of BF threads. .

Look at the fearless formula feeder blog.

What part of "stop telling new mums that they may make their baby ill" isn't registering?

Let's say - If formula is made up incorrectly it can cause health problems. If you choose to FF it's important to follow the instructions.

It's not the formula that's causing the problem is it? It's how it's made up.

Oh, good grief - the amount of slagging that pro-BFers get on MN - on this thread alone we've had "over-zealous evangelical warriors" "smug" "passive aggressive" "holier than thou". On other threads I've seen "breastfeeding nazi", "breastfeeding mafia", "zealot" etc etc.

Can someone point me to the thread where FFing women are described in such personalised, derogatory terms?

Way too much emotion going on here to make sense of anything, IMHO. This way madness lies ...

TTTT Exactly. I am fed up being told I am a loon or worse for challenging the anti FF culture. Of course I am not anti BF, I did it for a time, and admire anyone who does. But what I really hate is the sublime insidiousness which tells us ' you need to make up formula to this precise prescription or your child will get salmonella' - which is not true or 'if you breast feed you will loose weight' which is not true.

It is almost as though the BF lobby are trying as hard as they might to make BF seem so very attractive and FF the opposite. What I would like to see is a level playing field.

When have you ever heard 'don't BF, it will make you go loopy'? V true in may cases I know, but oft dismissed
.

TTTT and yet I was told by my MW that I was making my baby ill because I was BF.

No, boobmeister, because if it was the other way round, people would be furious and there would be an utter uproar about about it...

Personally, I really don't care how people choose to feed their babies. Its their child. I will, however, always offer as much support, encouragement and knowledge as I can to new breastfeeding mums because that is what I know. The same as if I was a formula feeding mum, I would try to help out mums getting to grips with that type of feeding too.

Helping each other out to continue breastfeeding, getting people through the low moments, reminding them that it comes in phases, and being proud of breastfeeding for 2 weeks / 2 months / 2 years - perfectly justified.

ohhh tabouleh knew you'd be here any time soon. Hows about a link to BMA?

Or failing that how about a link to some evidence to show that either babies who are FF are more likely to get D&V than BF babies or the stats to show how many babies in the UK are effected per year by poorly made up formula?

affected

Eh? I was constantly when DS was little being told that FF was better as he'd sleep through, or put weight on faster, or my partner could help, or I'd "get my body back" or any number of reasons.

Also I've never seen it stated on MN that breastfeeding helps you lose weight.

I have never come across a smug breastfeeder here, ever.

I have come across several bitter people who do not bf for whatever reason and get very angry at helpful threads explaining how to prepare formula properly.

Easy to get them mixed up I suppose.

how passive aggressive of you MGF

Right, so this thread was an attack on taboulah then?

If you want to FF fine (great even) but if you can't be arsed to follow official guidelines about how to make up a bottle of formula I guess that is your decision too.

Smug/proud - it's in the eye of the beholder