OK, I get BF, but am totally fucked off with the smugness

[FunnysInTheGarden]

Most of us are failed BF, but the tone on here recently has really pissed me off. We generally FF? Non? So why the smug shit and the passive aggressiveness towards those who have to/chose to FF?

So tempted to name names, but I won't.

Just stop being so smug and holier than thou please, some people

Personally, anyone who Bfs longer than a couple of months have succeeded in my opinion and i'm sue many on here are of the same or similar opinion.

wutker I am posting here because I have a 7 month old baby and some of the discussions about FF are interesting. What angers me is the usual crowd who turn up with their 'FF is evil dressed up as concern' shit and scare the living daylights out of normal mothers who are trying their best to feed their children. I am talking about the BMA crowd. Incidentally SPB you are not one of them

lovingmy2 I think succeeded or failed is a personal, arbitrary thing, unless you are talking about ticks in the red book. My friend fed her DD for two weeks, had her nipple hanging off, spoke to every bf expert she could get hold of and stopped when she couldn't bear the thought of a feed any longer. That isn't failing IMO.

I think sometimes people need to make it clear from the start when they want advice on FF. I have seen threads which start with 'I want to give up BF, which formula is best/ which bottles to use/ how often do I feed?' etc, but in the op the mother admits that she is sad to be giving up. People then offer advice about carrying on. IME, if you say in the title, 'I FF, questions...' you do not get people trying to convince you otherwise. Sorry if you have had a bad experience, I think I was certainly harder on myself than anyone else was when I gave up.

Ah ... that'd be us freakos on the Cow & Gate & Aptamil thread then

It's the level of fuss that seems to be created that bothers me. Getting worked up because a company dares advertise. Give people facts and let them make up their minds - yes. BUT demonising formula milk is unhelpful and unnecessary.

IMO.

"After a small amount of research, it transpires that the number of babies who fall ill in the UK having drank a poorly prepared bottle of formula is less than 1 a year"

....and doesn't the research say that babies who drink perfectly well prepared formula fall ill more than breastfed babies ( such as diarrhea, ear infections, respiratory infections, etc., and they are more likely to have allergic-type symptoms).

Bertie what are you on about? 'Greedy and quite often shit'? What a totally childish knee jerk reaction that is. They provide safe reliable food for our babies to eat............why 'shit'? Because they are big business and you are anti global innit?

Lovingmy2 I'd go further than that, I think that if you only ever breastfed your baby once you could still say that you breastfed. Nobody fails :( that's such a sad word. I'm pretty sure most people switch because their personal situation makes breastfeeding difficult or impractical, whether that's lack of support or whatever reason.

i'm one of them. we've had our cross words but tbh at the mo i'm genuinely worried about you funny. You clearly have a lot of anger and that's not good for you.

paisleyleaf - that's it. Spot on. How to make a mum who formula feeds feel like shit. Well done.

timothy, since when have adverts been facts? On the other hand the dreaded who do give facts. Sorry.

paisleyleaf no it doesn't. Can you show me the stats which prove that? It is often bandied around, but I have seen NO evidence to support it. Anecdotal evidence would seem to prove the contrary

I am BF-ing my 8 month old. After having a total mare for the first few months am I smug? Too fucking right I am!!

I failed to BF DS1 but went on to successfully BF DS2 for a year so I think I can see both sides of the fence.

There is no point in FF advertising if you are after facts. Do you believe any other advert on the TV? No, because adverts are about selling more, not about helping the consumer.

I don't believe I am superior to women who have never BF. However, I do remember the sadness I felt when BF didn't work out with DS1. Most women give up BF (or never get it established in my case) with a lot of guilt and sadness that is quietly felt for decades. I would like to see more genuine and practical support for new mums.

MFM last time I posted you said I had issues and was bullying.......oddly enough I was questioning BMA and your lot in general then........

www.babyfriendly.org.uk/items/research_detail.asp?item=467

So would you prefer if everyone said "Oh do whatever you want, FF is exactly the same as BF"? Don't think that pointing out what is basic common sense - provided a natural substance instead of an artificial one - is being holier than thou.

In fact all I have ever seen on here is encouragement and support for people, regardless of whether they are BF or FF or both.

You seem to have a major thorn in your paw... Maybe you should examine that instead of being aggressive towards other people instead - non?

timothy, paisley speaks facts. Many/most FF may have chosen to BF but weren't able to/weren't supported/etc but it doesn't change the facts that formula is inferior to breastmilk. Someone feeling bad about it doesn't change the fact. Someone saying it doesn't mean they're trying to make someone feel bad about it. Why should someone who FF feel bad? If they made a choice they should do so knowing the facts. If they didn't have a choice, the facts about formula don't change - they are what they are - but it still was good enough to save their baby and that makes it liquid gold.

When the choice is no milk at all, formula is fab. Why feel guilty?

"Bertie what are you on about? 'Greedy and quite often shit'? What a totally childish knee jerk reaction that is. They provide safe reliable food for our babies to eat............why 'shit'? Because they are big business and you are anti global innit?"

No, because they create a market by promoting FF as "normal" or "necessary" (ie with follow on milks), or "healthy" (follow on milks again).

paisleyleaf everything you listed my ds suffered from with the exception of ear ache. BF didn't help his immune system at all.

Excellent post organiccarrot.

Op can you give an example of the smugness?

FunnysInTheGarden - did you start off wanting to BF? Why are you turning your anger onto mothers who do BF and not onto a system (NHS, HVs, etc) which is designed (through lack of funding) to make most women switch to formula?

No, not because they're big business, mainly because they have proven themselves many times that given half a chance they will try desperately to undermine breastfeeding.

Example: Aptamil adverts very clearly aimed at breastfeeding mums.

Another example: Actions in the third world such as giving free samples of formula to mums they knew very well could not afford the formula at full price, let alone find enough clean water to make it up safely. Placing staff dressed as nurses in hospitals to "educate" people about their products. This isn't some distant memory thirty years ago, by the way, these things are still happening.

One more example: Formula companies paying for and heavily influencing the design of American hospitals and putting the nurseries a certain distance from the postnatal ward so that it makes on-demand breastfeeding incredibly difficult. Again I am not being hysterical and this actually happens.

Maybe "often shit" was a bad turn of phrase but you said "shit" first so I was technically paraphrasing.

I still don't get why this is smug though.

My baby is due in five days and I am really hoping to be able to BF. I have been having loads of "support" from my MW about it, and she told me this week that FF your child is the equivalent of filling their belly with cement Its that kind of "advice" that makes new mums feel so shit and defensive, I think.

organiccarrotcake - demonising formula milk is unhelpful. That's what makes women feel bad.