OK, I get BF, but am totally fucked off with the smugness

[FunnysInTheGarden]

Most of us are failed BF, but the tone on here recently has really pissed me off. We generally FF? Non? So why the smug shit and the passive aggressiveness towards those who have to/chose to FF?

So tempted to name names, but I won't.

Just stop being so smug and holier than thou please, some people

Grr at lack of funding.

I, with 2wk old baby, went to GP desperate for help with massive thrush infection all through milk ducts, creating enormous pain.

Me, "I need to get this fixed but formula is not an option" (we have cow's milk allergies)
Doctor, "Put him on formula, not everyone can breastfeed".

FFS.

11 weeks on we've cured the infection and babe continues to be EBF but no thanks to doc.

So frustrating and sad :(

Am I smug? No. But glad that I am self-confident and able to argue with doctors.

I think what she meant was ff is more filling and less easily digested, but I agree she needs to phrase that in a non-judgemental way. In fact, just the facts "ff is more filling and less easily digested" would do

You know what I am really pissed off that when I was in hospital my baby was taken (MW said she was going to help me have a break and I was really pleased at the time) but she came back and had given the baby 2 bottles of aptamil.

I will never really know whether my baby actually needed that formula but now thinking about it - it pisses me off. I had trouble for ages increasing my milk supply - and tbh if it was not for this forum and a wonderful book and a supportive DH I don't know if I would have continued to bf.

My DH ran around the hospital trying to get bf help too for days to no avail.

Now that really pisses me off.

Ds was mixed fed from 6 weeks (one top up FF a day). Done under threats from MW to re-hospitalise him if he continued to lose weight. Frankly I didn't appreciate the pressure from SCBU to BF and the pressure from the MW to FF.

timothy how would you define demonising? And do you mean milk, manufacturers or both?

Mollie, I know. My BF DD has eczema. But I guess I don't know if it would be worse otherwise.
It's all about statistics - of course there are healthy FF babies and ill BF babies.

What I don't understand wrt the OP is why, if you think formula is as good as breast, would you think of switching from BF as 'failure'.

yes did say the same thing last time didn't i funny? That's because you have a very antagonistic tone, and seeming disregard for evidence that makes it very difficult to have a discussion with you. Personally i'm always left with the impression that you haven't actually read what is posted cause you're too busy perceiving slights where non are intended. Perhaps if you assumed that people were a bit clumsy but well meaning you wouldn't get so upset. Then you could just take the info you like and leave that you don't. Or even better put a counter argument instead of sticking your fingers in your ears and screaming.

Oh right, well I do also find the whole '2 years' thing a bit annoying but that's because I personally wouldn't want to still be breastfeeding a 2 year old. I don't know if it's smugness though... perhaps. Breastfeeding to 6 months is not failure IMO. I will try to carry on with breastfeeding when I go back to work at 9 - 10 months but I really don't think it's as easy to keep up exclusively if you go back to work so won't even let other people's opinions on the matter get to me.

Cement? That's awful! Not to mention ridiculous

bf unfortunately a topic that does attract the over zealous evangelical warriors.armed with spurious research from shitsville uni.youtube links to gurus and definitive "proof" that ff causes
boils
bunions
tennis elbow
gout

but hey ho is a weird mn micro culture,nor usually replicated in rl

cement - . Bit stupid, quite inaccurate and not helpful.

Formula is fab, I agree. It is essential for the survival of millions of babies. Maybe it should be much cheaper then, rather than making huge profits which benefit shareholders, rather than mothers and babies.

So some people on this thread do not believe that formula is inferior to breast milk.

Fair enough, we can all interpret research in our own ways, but surely those who don't believe the research showing the problems that formula cause wouldn't get so wound up about it!

Ds had bleeding eczema as a baby. It couldn't have been any worse. Still BF 'til he was 11 months but in hindsight wish I hadn't bothered.

I think there is a myth perpetuated on here and elsewhere that if you fail to BF you have failed your baby in some bizarre way. The same as some mothers feel a failure if they have a medically interventionist birth like a C-section. Personally it doesn't matter to me what people choose to do but there are certainly some very vocal posters on MN who do think it matters.

OK the cement comment was stupid but there are MWs/HVs still telling women their milk is too watery or to pump after a feed to see if they are starving their baby. All equally unhelpful.

The sad reality is that HCP professionals know very little about BF (Or FF for that matter) as their needs to be much more training for them. This won't happen now, though, because of the recession so we will still be getting threads in the future about "smug BFers" instead of the OP turning her anger and upset where it belongs - at the NHS.

When I say demonising I think of posts like paisleyleaf's about how a baby is more likely to have health problems if it's fed on formula milk than breast milk. Yes, we know it's possible, but it makes it sound like it's guaranteed to happen.

I know it's not how it's meant, but it it is how it comes across.

err,no there is no nhs official postings or literature that berates mums who use formula.certainly not quite like some of the alarmist stuff i've seen on mn

dont globally pin this malaise on nhs staff or institution

but the words "more likely" mean possible rather than guaranteed. How would you suggest she phrase it?

SM you are so right. Am laughing like the wolf at your description of the nutters who populate BF/FF.

Am only angry at the load of shit spouted to normal mother who wish to FF their children, only to be told they are being POISONED

For the record, by the way, I don't think that formula is evil, at all. I didn't choose to breastfeed for the health benefits and although I know that there is a difference I think that in this country with our clean, easily available water, and excellent health service I think that the average person is not really going to notice a difference. Furthermore I think that the bonding, skin to skin benefits etc are not exclusive to breastfeeding and can definitely be achieved by FF mums (and dads whichever way the baby is fed) and if someone is really struggling emotionally with breastfeeding, resenting it etc, I'm not sure that these particular benefits are being had anyway. The other advantages like it always being ready etc surely are subjective. I'd rather have it always there and not have to wash bottles but someone else might like being able to plan feeds more and share night feeding.

I'm not anti FF in any way and I don't think anyone should feel guilty whether they chose it or stopped BF before they wanted to or whatever reason. What I am angry about is formula manufacturers who really have FF parents over a barrel. How are you supposed to choose between brands when all you have to go on is advertising? What are all these ingredients, why are they added and do they actually have a benefit? And why the fuck do they get away with charging so much for it??

Usually the posts that say things about breast milk being better than formula are in response to someone asking for help and support to continue to BF. I don't think people are intending to be smug or berate people for FF. It is a touchy subject with a lot of mums though, on here and in real life.

So has anyone got any proof that ff babies are more likely to fall ill than bf babies?

TTT, as you say..."more likely" - it's not the same as "guaranteed"

"only to be told they are being POISONED"

Now that, of course, is utterly horrible. I've never seen it here, but if it happens it's just nasty.

Funny, someone gave a link further up the thread.