Trans People

[Lovenliving]

It is eye opening to see all the concerns that people on here and generally have around toilets and wards and sharing space with men. Even when they identify as women.

I do wonder if they see any parallels with how Black people might feel around white people. Personally, I am not worried about a man being in the toilets, I am worried that some sort of race related incident will occur while me and my loved ones are in a enclosed space without witnesses. I am worried that my stud relatives and friends who are already seen as masculine due to their Blackness will be harassed by white people while they frequent women's spaces.

I worry about how this idea that all men are an equal danger to women impacts on my Black teenage son in terms of how white women treat him in public and at work. I saw him go from Black boy to Black man and how people responded to him differently as a result. Normalising this response to men without understanding your own racial bias will increase microaggressions against Black people. White women will believe it is ok to treat Black men like dangerous predators and definitely more dangerous than men who are white. This isnt something we need more of for Black people. It kills Black men.

Honestly, in the grand scale of living as a Black mother in the UK, this trans issue is so far from my radar as things that mess up our life as a Black family in the UK. The thought that out of 100 people I might meet in a public bathroom, 1 might have been born a boy. It highlights how different at least my life is from the average white woman on Mumsnet.

And this is the problem. You equate your problems as a white woman as being exactly the same as the problems black women face, just because we are all women. We cannot solve the issues faced by all women with a blanket approach to white women and women of colour.

You’ve had an hour and that was the best you could come up with?

I've suffered race related violence three times in my life. All by white women.

Just a few things as I’m not as educated on this issue as I should be .

Lack of representation in teaching staff, senior leadership and curriculum.

Appearance issues. Natural hair being considered messy and children told off or sanctioned for it.

Black children being more likely to be permanently excluded.

Black children being more likely to be seen as aggressive and trouble making.

Adultification of children.

However, the poster is correct and nice in her response - we should all be just women.

What do you mean?

The OP wanted to discuss how being a black woman, she feels she has more important issues dealing with racism than women who worry about men entering women’s spaces right?

And women have come on here to discuss this issue, repeatedly saying they understand her and care about racism but that they also feel that men entering women’s spaces is a problem and one that should be discussed.

It’s a discussion forum after all.

It seems like you will only be happy if this becomes an echo chamber and everyone says “yes, we agree - as a black woman you should not be worried about men entering women’s spaces as you have more important things to worry about than that - and we will all stop talking about it too in solidarity”…

It makes no sense.

Just wanted to add: try to look on it more that we are trying to get the OP to join our team, rather than we are not wanting to join hers.

I want to join hers, indeed I feel like I already am on her team - AND I want to be in this team: the women advocating for women team. I wish she’d feel the same.

Thank you for that recommendation.

The problem I see is as follows: you assume who I am and you assume what I think, neither is correct.

It's unhelpful to conflate two completely separate issues, one faced by BW and/or wider BAME women with another faced by all women, in addition to the previous obviously significant issue.

Issues can co-exist and not be mutually exclusive. Blurring the boundaries does not help any woman.

We are all women but white women have far more privilege than women of colour - we need to address this!

i am mixed. That doesn’t mean it is “fine” for all women. The law is written for everyone. Have you no consideration for women who have cultural or religious reasons for not wanting to be in a mixed sex ward? Or the facts that women are most likely to be sexually assaulted by men (inc men identifying as women), so just prefer to lesson that likelihood when ill in hospital?

I can experience racism and be vulnerable from men, at the same time. One does not negate the other.

And you know why the so called trans issue became so widespread and why the trans ideology lobbyists are fighting so hard? It’s because they are men. And men always believe their rights trump female rights and get angry when we say NO! We want all your spaces, your sport places, your rape crisis centres, your bathrooms, your changing rooms, because I am man and I get what I want!

The parallels between some whites taking what they want, across history has not passed me by.

We should stand together.

No.

I don’t equate my problems as being the same as those black women face. No one here is. Not one person. White women don’t have to deal with racism - that’s obvious.

We are saying that women - all women- should be concerned about men entering women’s spaces.

Because the OP - and others here - are saying we shouldn’t be bothered about it.
Shouldn’t be even discussing it.

I’m beginning to think there is maybe an agenda here…

Of course that goes without saying, and to be honest it didn't need saying in my book.
The post was what divides us further, not about privilege.

Omg - getting the OP to join your team

you just cannot see it

this is a black mumsnetters thread and you continue to minmise what the OP is wanting to discuss by keep centring your white women concerns that OP clearly said at the beginning weren’t her priority -

omg - can’t get over join our team - why should she join a team that doesn’t represent her and minimises her issues

join our team - bow down and comply and Center white women Issues - so patronising

What do you think the agenda is?

Remember your post that got deleted? That’s not how you get someone to join your team or at least engage in the conversation.

I really resent the idea that recognising that transwomen are men is white feminism. That view is silencing and ignoring black and brown women’s voices and campaigning. From Linda Bellos to Deta Hedman we’ve been part of this fight.

Love this post. Honestly, nothing to add.

If the OP had come on and made a thread about that I’m sure it would’ve gone in a different direction.

The point people are making is: what has trans got to do with it?

I don’t get why you don’t get that?

The OP isn’t saying that she’s telling anyone not to be bothered, she is discussing with other black mums netters her experience and you keep trying to centre yours and tell her she should be concerned about what you are

She did come on and make a thread about that and you keep hijacking with your own white agenda

Why would trans issue not be a black woman's issue too? Women are women, surely the trans issue is a personal point of view? Any woman may have a view that a man in her toilet/changing room or in her sports isn't what they may want or be ok with it, no matter of colour?

I do not understand why you think trans is a white women only issue. That actually sounds patronising tbh. It's 'team women' isn't it?

I can’t talk for her but the way I see it is - she feels that the trans debate has become such a large part of feminism, and perhaps that the issues of black women have fallen by the wayside.

FWIW - I agree there is a problem with a small percentage of men using the trans stuff to gain access to women. I don’t know what the solution is to that, but I don’t think it’s an outright ban on all trans women being allowed in toilets etc. There has to be some kind of answer or compromise. My problem with this thread is that I think more people should have come on here and asked what we could do differently to help her, rather than just in with the ‘the problems are separate, trans women are men’ etc etc

You seem to enjoy completely ignoring anything anyone says and just trying to hammer your (unfathomable) point home.

Mine is: Why would any woman be ok with men entering women’s spaces?

No poster said that “trans” should be the OP’s priority.
The OP however and others on here seem to think that “trans” shouldn’t even be discussed - why?
The OP brought up “trans” - why?

Why not just say “I don’t feel that white women understand the issues I have with racism every day” or “I’m sick of white women’s privilege”?

Why make it about anything to do with men?

People are saying they care about racism AND they care about the trans issue and that’s pretty normal… you seem to live in some kind of alternate reality to me so I honestly can’t relate to you. I find your posts very strange.

Yea completely agree

Thank you...can I ask- do you think some Trans Rights activists have been pushing the narrative that their demands are inextricably intertwined with anti-racism? I know BLM partnered with trans rights movements