Black men protesting BLM but exclusively dating white women

[LillyFlower1984]

I’m always confused about black men or men of colour in the media and RL who shout racism/BLM and so on yet when you look at their lifestyle they are married to white women. When you go on to find out more they only ever have dated/married white women.... what are people’s take on this?

YetAnotherBeckyMumsnet
Hello everyone. We've reinstated this thread now but can we ask that the discussion remains on track and relevant to the OP? We've had mails from a number of posters who felt that some of the points made were being deliberately misinterpreted. This is obviously an important discussion for black women to have and centres on the continuing struggle to have their voices heard. For this reason, we'd like it to remain civil and constructive. Thank you

@ChancesWhatChances this has been rehashed continuously on this thread and the points you are making have nothing to do with the OP. This thread was deleted precisely because of posts like yours and reports saying it was racist while deliberating misunderstanding the points made and refusing to actually engage with the posts and with what they thought the post was about rather than what it actually is about. It was reinstated as a result.

Noone is attacking interracial relationships as has been stated repeatedly on this thread. It is about black men, and their interactions with black women and anti-blackness.

I think your first instinct to bow out was the right one.

@Dastardlythefriendlymutt I don’t think you actually read my posts, if you had you would have seen my partner is a black man in a relationship with a white woman, and one that solely has had relationships with white women. He also supports anti racism movements (though distances himself from BLM when they decided to go political). His stance on relationships has nothing to do with stereotyping, neither does mine. We’re both attracted to who we are attracted to, he isn’t attracted to black women. I share the same mentality in I am not attracted to Asian men, so I won’t date Asian men. I have never considered an Asian man as a dating prospect, he has never considered a black woman as a dating prospect. It comes down to personal preference at the end of the day, and we are tired of hearing the argument that it must be because he’s stereotyping black women. He comes from a large family with his mum, sisters, aunts, female cousins all having played a large part of his life and he loves them dearly, holds no negative racial or stereotypical connotations about any of them.

Yes I did and if is completely irrelevant and in no way comparable to a white woman refusing to date Asian men, when most relationships are intra-racial therefore for a significant proportion of men to dismiss a partner of their own race completely is rooted in more than just simply attraction.

What you are doing is centering your feelings over the actual discussion people are trying to have.

Perhaps actually read the thread?

I would suggest you post your own thread about the struggles of being in an interracial relationship rather than co-opt a discussion into something it isn't about.

We’re both attracted to who we are attracted to, he isn’t attracted to black women.

It isn't biologically possible to find your own race impossible to mate with though . There will no doubt be the influence of white supremacist beauty ideals somewhere in his subconscious . That's why black men refusing to date within their own race is NOT the same as a shire woman saying she isn't into Asian men .

but if you’re not attracted to someone then there’s nothing wrong with ruling out an entire race. I’m not attracted to Chinese men (for talking sake), so I’d never have a relationship with one. I find many white men gross (in their habits and behaviours), so I don’t date them. Who is saying all black men that date white women do so because they’re stereotyping black women? They have every right to protest racism and stereotypes, there is nothing to say all black men that date white women dislike black women and it’s extremely insulting to those in interracial relationship. And maybe, just maybe, interracial couples are sick to the back teeth of being demonised because of who they love.

Who has said ALL black men do though? It is pointing out a SPECIFIC type of black men who do this. The type that will be with someone who is non-black while saying all women of their race are every negative thing under the sun to ANYONE that will listen including those who already think lesser of black women as it is and will happily point out that even black men don’t like black women leaving us open to more abuse and racism, yet want the support of the same black women when it comes to fighting against the very thing that effects us both.

My husband is white and I’ve dated men of different races and from different countries, but I have never once thought to disparage all black men or to do so to other races. I know all black men are not alike just like many know that other races and men/women are not all alike. My closest male friends are both black, one I’ve known since we were children and the other since uni, 10+ years of friendship and I know they are not like the men being spoken of. They’re the first to say that men like this are in the wrong just as my father, uncles, and cousins because when these men are talking about all black women, said men are including their mothers, sisters, aunts, nieces, cousins, and friends who have been there for them and understand their struggles.

@BuffetShark
My experiences and other black women's experiences are evidences. We dont need Google's studies. Afterall studies and statistics are taken from real people who have lived real experiences.

@DivineRoyalty yes there are many groups who consider the few bad apples they know/have heard of, to extrapolate to the whole of a race/sex/religion.

Like those during the referendum who got together with others and chatted about and used personal experiences of rude/violent foreigners to disparage whole groups.

It’s called stereotyping, prejudice and bigotry and is unattractive in whatever group is espousing it.

Realistically, if you are unable to consider that maybe you should look up real evidence if you want to hold unfounded opinions about an entire population of people, then what exactly makes you different from someone else doing that to YOUR group?

This thread is evidence of nothing except that we are all capable of ignorance and tribalism.

No-one is attacking interracial relationships as has been stated repeatedly on this thread. It is about black men, and their interactions with black women and anti-blackness

DastardlyMutt

Exactly. How much clearer does it have to be?

Couldn't care less about inter-racial relationships. It's the Black Men in those relationships who won't simply shut up and get on with their lives/relationships, instead forever trying to talk to or about Black Women, perpetuating stereotypes of Black Women and Girls, that are problematic and what the OP is about.

Post after post of non-Black Women/flying monkeys attempting to centre themselves me me me me me & lecture, isn't edifying or relevant.

Again

YetAnotherBeckyMumsnet
Hello everyone. We've reinstated this thread now but can we ask that the discussion remains on track and relevant to the OP? We've had mails from a number of posters who felt that some of the points made were being deliberately misinterpreted. This is obviously an important discussion for black women to have and centres on the continuing struggle to have their voices heard. For this reason, we'd like it to remain civil and constructive. Thank you

Particularly

can we ask that the discussion remains on track and relevant to the OP?

Black Women
Black Men
Anti-Blackness
Misogynoir

White women and mixed women jumping onto this thread talking about nonsense is similar to children jumping into adult conversation. I dont know if I should laugh or be annoyed. The question was asked to black women in black mumsnetters. If you are not black it wouldn't have affected you. If you are black and in denial you are probably feeling ashame of the truth. The OP wants to hear from honest black people. Black women please ignore them and let them have a conversation with themself . Silence is the best way to let someone know that they are talking rubbish. Some people just dont want to get it, it's not that they dont get it.

@ChancesWhatChances it has been spelled out about 20 times that it's not just about your black partnee dating you. It's in the title of the thread.
Also you're not chinese. Ive never dated a chinese man either but as im not chinese myself, i dont think that signifies anything.

@DivineRoyalty

White women and mixed women jumping onto this thread talking about nonsense is similar to children jumping into adult conversation. I dont know if I should laugh or be annoyed. The question was asked to black women in black mumsnetters. If you are not black it wouldn't have affected you. If you are black and in denial you are probably feeling ashame of the truth. The OP wants to hear from honest black people. Black women please ignore them and let them have a conversation with themself . Silence is the best way to let someone know that they are talking rubbish. Some people just dont want to get it, it's not that they dont get it.

Right...so because I don’t like stereotyping about black men that SOME posts are implying (note the ‘some’ because there are some well thought out, non ignorant posts that I agree with that don’t have to resort to ‘I’m a black woman so I know all about black men’) and would prefer people didn’t stereotype others, no matter who they are, I’m either not truly black, ashamed or not honest?

And you being ignorant is somehow powerful and totally different to the ignorance of other groups/races how again?

Anyway, as I was saying....

Nigerian men get married - it's the norm and expected from a certain age. Those who don't are the exception. Don't know about other black men. Just correcting this generalisation made by black people.

Regarding the OP: Yes, there are SOME black men (in general) who don't see a black woman as 'a prize' or worth much - at least physically - mainly due to eurocentric beauty standards.

For these men, being with a white or non-black woman is much better than being with a black woman. Therefore, a black woman isn't their "preference". Whether they love the white/non-black woman they're with or not isn't the point.

SOME of these men go the extra mile of wanting to justify their "preference" (usually because there's a bit of a 'guilty conscience'). The only way they can do so is by using stereotypes because they either don't realise their bias or they want to convince themselves and/or others that they have none. In other words, they have no real/other reason for the "preference" except that they've bought the eurocentric beauty standards as the be-all and end-all.

Disclaimer: This is not all black men. This is not all black men who are with white/non-black women.

Yes, some of these men do follow the BLM movement or protest that BLM. Some of them don't see their dating "preference" as part of the blm issue, while some do but either don't care or don't know what to do about it/how to change their mindset.

@DivineRoyalty

Anyway, as I was saying....

@Afromeg definitely agree that Eurocentric beauty standards certainly do lead to the phenomenon of some black men feeing we just aren’t as ‘worthy’

@DivineRoyalty you were saying...nothing. Nothing at all. You don’t seem able to answer any points, only bask in your ignorance. I know people like you, latching on to a group identity to make your bitterness and bigotry ‘acceptable’. You should be able to discuss issues facing black women without resorting to stereotypes, like many others on this thread are managing to.

I didnt say black men dont marry. I am very well aware that African men born on the continent do like to tie the knot, very quickly actually. I was comparing interracial dating between black men and black women to see if black women in general are the problem as people like to think or if these black men who date exclusively white are the problem. From my observation, evidence and other's it seems like black women do get married when dating outside of their race whilst these black men who date outside their race leave these women to be single mother, considering black men date out more than black women do. Or do we need to pull out statistics to know that black men date out more than black women or do we not have eyes to see or do we live on a different planet to not know what happens around us.

I made this comment after someone asked why are black women not dating out or why are other races of men are not approaching us. From my evidence it's not an issue with black women.

In my evidence, other races of men are very attracted to black women but they may not approach a black woman or take it further because of societal stigma. They dont want to be looked down on and disgraced for loving the scapegoat of society. Dating black women are only for brave mature men, which very few men are.

My latest comments were to Afromeg and other reasonable individuals staying on topic.

DivineRoyalty
White women and mixed women jumping onto this thread talking about nonsense is similar to children jumping into adult conversation. I dont know if I should laugh or be annoyed. The question was asked to black women in black mumsnetters. If you are not black it wouldn't have affected you. If you are black and in denial you are probably feeling ashame of the truth. The OP wants to hear from honest black people. Black women please ignore them and let them have a conversation with themself . Silence is the best way to let someone know that they are talking rubbish. Some people just dont want to get it, it's not that they dont get it

This.

Heavy investment in closing down Black Women's voices. Being triggered by discussions centering Black Women and Girls is a common occurrence. There are many Feminism discussions within which Black Women are othered in dismissive fashion.

The assumption that they've this right is rooted in White supremacist ideology, aligned with this is Black Women who are nervous of any detailed discussion as they are male-centred, or integrated (consciously or subconsciously) into White supremacist ideology, or in denial; ie if we don't talk about it, if we deny it, then it doesn't exist.

When of course, we know Anti-Blackness as per OP does exist; it's there in music lyrics, the Sapphire/Mammy etc tropes, the Black Men who throw Black Women under the bus and haven't yet worked out it actually hasn't given them 'a seat at the table' in the way they imagined it would.

These stereotypes and specific intersectional race & gender Anti-Blackness absolutely do need to be discussed, as they are harmful to Black Women as a collective.

They impact impressions of us, our medical care, our rights of autonomy over our bodies, perceptions that it's fine to be over-sexual or sexually aggressive when approaching or speaking to Black Women...many things.

Sojourner Truth spoke on matters similar to this many years ago. We know it isn't a new issue. The difference is now it's more so openly discussed.

Oh no, I actually wasn't referring to your comment, @DivineRoyalty and didn't realise who'd said what I was responding to, as I was just paying more attention to the comments than posters.

Was just correcting it generally especially as I've seen it many times.

From my observation, evidence and other's it seems like black women do get married when dating outside of their race whilst these black men who date outside their race leave these women to be single mother, considering black men date out more than black women do

I can honestly say that I've noticed this too (in general, obviously not all) and I agree with you that it's not a black women issue but a black men issue.

@Afromeg

Yes I agree with you. Not all black men remain unmarried. Culturally, from my African family, my experience is men marry and are pressured to do so and encouraged not to have children before marriage.

However, I have experienced the anti-blackness portrayed by the second kind of man as well. I know both exist and the former does not negate the latter. The problem is the latter group just as you have rightly put it.

DivineRoyalty
In my evidence, other races of men are very attracted to black women but they may not approach a black woman or take it further because of societal stigma. They dont want to be looked down on and disgraced for loving the scapegoat of society. Dating black women are only for brave mature men, which very few men are

2 of my Son-In-Laws are White (non-British)

The only commentary about it has been from Black Men not related to my family. Again this thing of thinking they've the right to open their mouths and 'pass judgment' as they assume they can say anything they want to a Black Woman. A Black Woman who is nothing to do with them at all. When they're closed down on this, they are agitated.

These men are neither happy in the skin they're in, nor entirely secure in their relationship choices. It's their own problem, something they need to work on themselves, yet they've seamlessly managed to convince the world that this is somehow Black Women's fault/problem.

The power of Patriarchy.

However, I have experienced the anti-blackness portrayed by the second kind of man as well. I know both exist and the former does not negate the latter

I agree it doesn't @Dastardlythefriendlymutt